Heyman: Execs have no idea why Scioscia still employed

[nate]

Should have been fired years ago.

http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/inside-baseball-with-jon-heyman/heyman-10-managers-whose-seat-hot-lukewarm-cooler-youd-think/

5. Mike Scioscia (50-70), Angels. Outside L.A. (or technically Anaheim), a lot of stat-inclined executives around the game don’t get why Scioscia is still there, don’t understand it one bit. And it has nothing to do with the record this year. It’s about the belief that Scioscia has not adapted, that he’s supremely old school in a new-school game. Scioscia could not get along with ex-Angels GM Jerry Dipoto, driving Dipoto out and to the in-division rival Mariners. But new GM Billy Eppler says everything’s great with Scioscia, that they have a great rapport, and that Scioscia has been terrific in terms of communication in one of the most difficult seasons in club history (they lost an entire rotation shortly into the season, including top starters Garrett Richards and Andrew Heaney). And Eppler says flat out, “I don’t see any reason why Mike Scioscia would not be managing the Angels next year. He’s been served a great deal of adversity, and he’s managed to keep everything positive, and kept fighting. A lot of people would have approached the situation with a less positive attitude, and Mike did not. Everything’s been great from that standpoint.” Eppler seems to have done a great job fostering a positive work environment, but their season was wrecked early. So it’s tough to blame Scioscia, even for the 11-game losing streak that buried them further. He also happens to have two more years to go on the most expensive managerial contract in baseball history.

[Stradling]

"A lot of stat inclined executives" 

I'm not surprised one bit.  I am looking forward to this turning into a thread about how bad of a hire Eppler was for valuing Mike.  

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

This type of thread will illicit the same type of responses we see in the 11 game losing streak thread and various other Scioscia threads:  

Some posters will question the accuracy, how could other execs really know Scioscia wields too much power or forced Jerry out, it's not his fault and so on.

Others will say it reinforces what they've been saying for years.

Either way I'm in the camp that says it's just time for a change.  The injuries are a big reason they have the record they do but too often teams under Scioscia have seemed to play like they're just going through the motions.  There's only two constants left the last 10+ years.  

[eaterfan]

I don't think it's really hard to understand at all. Most (nearly all managers) don't manage by the sabermetrics book. So it's all a matter of degree. Scioscia has done a great job managing the pen according to stats guys and has generally gotten the team to a better record than their pythagorean record. Also, while many on this board think that making knee jerk reactions and hitting emotional highs and lows after every game is good the even keel approach is probably better for a team's mentality over the course of a 162 game season or many seasons.

[Ohtaniland]

Heyman must be reading @ngelswin.

[mulwin444]

a lot of stat-inclined executives  = Dipoto speaking through a voice-distorter 

[Chuck]

12 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Heyman must be reading @ngelswin.

^^

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

22 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Heyman must be reading @ngelswin.

Validation!

 

At least he is somewhat smart enough to get his Halos information from knowledgeable people......  

[m0nkey]

I wonder how this thread will turn out

[RallyMo]

This should have started with "In Seattle..." rather than what we see. 

[California Cajun]

I think Arte might cut the cord if his contract was up for renewal at the end of the season. 

Owners are ultimately loyal to themselves.  I learned that when I lost my 31-year-job.

Having said that, you can't blame Scioscia for this season.  You can blame him and Arte for Dipoto's leaving.  The GM must outrank the manager.   

This business model ultimately has to be corrected. 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

This may shock you, but-- in terms of Managerial duties-- Scioscia just does not have that much of an impact on outcomes of games. Not because he's good, bad or average, but because, by and large, Managers just don't impact the outcomes of games all that much. While he sometimes makes weird decisions, he's always been pretty good at managing a bullpen-- one of the most direct applications of in-game management. Further more,  I actually like Scioscia's strategy (aggressive approach and that whole deal) is great for the right team. 

Don't misunderstand me; I would like a new manager. I think his tactical approach is often wanting, and if half the stuff that came out with the DiPoto departure are true, he probably should have been fired on the spot. The fact that he will fall in love with certain player/ coaches that are CLEARLY inferior (Hatcher/ Mathis, come on down) is enough to give him the boot. What REALLY irks me is that he seems to have a lot of control over how the Angels run their franchise-- and, while that's probably common, it's just not something Scioscia does very well at all. 

[bloodbrother]

[Inside Pitch]

36 minutes ago, California Cajun said:

 

Having said that, you can't blame Scioscia for this season.  You can blame him and Arte for Dipoto's leaving.  The GM must outrank the manager.   

 

Is that a blame situation or is it a credit situation?     Asking for a friend.

[Jobu]

Where's the "Scioscia laughing with his bat and balls" picture when you need it. 

[Pujols4MVP]

If the team was a playoff contender I'd want Sciosica fired, since the team is not good atm I want Scioscia to stay & start using more small ball tactics & aggressive base running to help get that #2nd overall pick.

[Homebrewer]

7 minutes ago, Jobu said:

Where's the "Scioscia laughing with his bat and balls" picture when you need it. 

[totdprods]

I think this would have been more valid a year or two ago. I don't think Sosh has really been the problem, but the dynamic has been off. I don't think he wields as much power as has been long believed, especially the past few seasons. I do think collectively Arte and Sosh *did* both have too much pull at one point, and it just so happened to be at the very worst time - around '09-'12. Reagins was too sycophantic, and Dipoto was the polar opposite, and that disconnect broke down the organizational balance.

I agree that the manager really doesn't have much impact on the game to game basis, but Sosh does seem to make the most of his team and that's been true over the last 17 years - the discrepancy with the Pythag standings points to that, and even though we have fallen short of the playoffs often recently, I felt the recents teams that were in it until the last week of the season were over-performing, and Sosh earned some credit there.

The injuries this season aren't his fault, nor the thin farm or awful roster structure. Does he have a share of the blame? In part, because his opinion holds some weight as any manager's should, but not enough to lose his job.

The time to have made a managerial change was a couple years back when it would have made sense to install a Dipoto man and commit to his plan, or after the '17 or '18 season at this point. He seems to be working well with Eppler, I don't think him or Arte have nearly as much say in baseball ops anymore, nor does he have the contract security to push it anymore. Don't see us parting ways unless one of the next two season ends disastrously in an unexpected way. Not worth jarring the clubhouse, Trout, or paying more dead weight money. 

[IEAngelsfan]

1 hour ago, Homebrewer said:

There's the bat, but where are the balls the previous poster referenced?.........oh wait, never mind.

[greginpsca]

Makes me wonder how many of these execs would be standing in line to hire him if he left the Angels.

[WallyWorld]

5 hours ago, nate said:

He also happens to have two more years to go on the most expensive managerial contract in baseball history.

I think that's about 90% of it right there. The org is trying to reduce a severely bloated payroll, and most likely isn't going to contend in the next year or two anyway. Why pay Mike Scioscia millions of dollars to NOT manage the team? Might as well wait it out another 2 years and hope Arte is smart enough to never give another manager that kind of contract again.

I'll add that with the way things are going this year, the situation is ripe for players to revolt and for things to get truly ugly. That hasn't happened and we haven't heard or seen of anything, so I have to think the players are still OK with Mike. Again, no point in changing now.

[Angels#1Fan]

5 hours ago, nate said:

a lot of stat-inclined executives around the game don’t get why Scioscia is still there, don’t understand it one bit.

That should read "stat inclined executive Jerry Dipoto"......

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

Makes me wonder how many of these execs would be standing in line to hire him if he left the Angels.

Not the younger saber metric guys but there are still "old school" GM's who would hire him in a heartbeat.....

[eligrba4ever]

It doesn't read like Heyman feels that way. He notes "a lot of stat-inclined executives" who feel that way. And then he goes to Eppler for the counter-argument and doesn't refute Eppler. Dipoto is a "stat-inclined" executive. So is Dipoto's assistant now running Philly. I don't particularly care what those two think. (Grudge.)

None would tamper on the record, because then Mike might not sign with any of them if he exits here after his contract ends.

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Zero!!! Scioscia had a chance to opt out of his contract. No takers. Joe opted out. 

Joe opted out because he was getting paid peanuts ... perspective