Lince-done

[disarcina]

22 hours ago, stormngt said:

This doesn't negate the main point to your thread but does gives some factual corrections.

 

Kazmir did not get an extension with the Angels.  Kaz was a good dump by the Ray's, but I don't think we gave too much up for him.  Also I think he was out for more than a couple of years before his comeback.

are you sure we didn't extend Kazmir -- I thought we did -- his contract went from $8 million in 2010 (he was 9-15 for us that season) to $12 million in 2011 (was that his TB Rays' contract?) and in 2011 for all money - he pitched one game for us.......was out all of 2012 and 2013 (perhaps partially on our dime -- not sure) and then signed with Cleveland and wound up in Oakland where he re-jump started his career.........now he's signed with the Dogs through 2018 for the largest contracts of his career ($18 million for 2018)

Here's a guy who I was sure was DONE when the Angels finally released him - and the Halos gave him every chance in every different kind of pitching role to come around to his early years (Mets prospect, Tampa Bay rotation guy who either led or was near top in K's in AL for 3 straight years)........during the time before he was completely shut down, I remember watching him pitch and it looked like he was bored with the game and would rather be anywhere else put pitching in MLB.

then, suddenly, he's out for two seasons and now he's climbed back into a contender's rotation........

[stormngt]

13 minutes ago, disarcina said:

are you sure we didn't extend Kazmir -- I thought we did -- his contract went from $8 million in 2010 (he was 9-15 for us that season) to $12 million in 2011 (was that his TB Rays' contract?) and in 2011 for all money - he pitched one game for us.......was out all of 2012 and 2013 (perhaps partially on our dime -- not sure) and then signed with Cleveland and wound up in Oakland where he re-jump started his career.........now he's signed with the Dogs through 2018 for the largest contracts of his career ($18 million for 2018)

Here's a guy who I was sure was DONE when the Angels finally released him - and the Halos gave him every chance in every different kind of pitching role to come around to his early years (Mets prospect, Tampa Bay rotation guy who either led or was near top in K's in AL for 3 straight years)........during the time before he was completely shut down, I remember watching him pitch and it looked like he was bored with the game and would rather be anywhere else put pitching in MLB.

then, suddenly, he's out for two seasons and now he's climbed back into a contender's rotation........

I am fairlyrics certain we didn't extend.  Maybe there was an option after the first year.  He pitched decently first us after the trade.  Was a disaster in the playoffs, worse the galloping season.  I think it was the third season we let him go.  Not positive.

[ten ocho recon scout]

31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Did that buddy of yours hit a home run yesterday?  

No, hes a player development guy. From what i was told, dipo cleaned house when he first got to town, and that didnt make him the most popular guy there. 

[Oz27]

4 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Who was the alternative? The point eater was making was that this team had to scramble to replace 4 starting pitchers in the middle lf the season, with nothing to trade and no free agents. I doubt they instsntly thought of lincicum when richards went down. But like i mentioned a few months back in the chacin sucks thread, somebody actually has to throw the baseball to the catcher. Beggars cant be choosers

Better pitchers are available on waivers all the damn time. It's not hard to find someone better than a guy who has pitched worse than anyone ever has.

[Blarg]

Please, tell us all about all those guys available in May. I'm sure you have a complete list of successful returns to the majors this season at hand.

[ten ocho recon scout]

What Blarg said, Oz. Maybe later in the season some mlb ready guys will hit the waiver wire  (and i have a feeling thats going to be a must, taking on a contract someone else doesnt want). But when the cj wilson situation became clear, then richards and heaney went down, we really didnt have a whole lot op options. Mayyyybe flipping say calhoun for a pitcher. But doubt that was going to happen in may.

[arch stanton]

It was fun to watch history unfold in front of us. More so than just run of the mill suckage. Now we'll have to settle for plain old poor pitching from the next guy. That's just irritating.

[Oz27]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

Please, tell us all about all those guys available in May. I'm sure you have a complete list of successful returns to the majors this season at hand.

Sure. There aren't many returns you would consider "successful" but if you actually read what I said instead of just racing in to make an obnoxious comment, I only said that "better" pitchers are available on waivers pretty regularly. In the May/June period, guys like John Danks, Sean O'Sullivan, Nick Tepesch, Eric Surkamp and Scott Diamond were all DFA'd. They're all pretty terrible but my only criteria was "better than Lincecum" and most, if not all of them, meet that. More recently, there have been pitchers DFA'd pretty regularly who are significantly better. My point was only that finding starters who suck but are still better than Lincecum is really not as hard as people seem to think as it is.

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

Sure. There aren't many returns you would consider "successful" but if you actually read what I said instead of just racing in to make an obnoxious comment, I only said that "better" pitchers are available on waivers pretty regularly. In the May/June period, guys like John Danks, Sean O'Sullivan, Nick Tepesch, Eric Surkamp and Scott Diamond were all DFA'd. They're all pretty terrible but my only criteria was "better than Lincecum" and most, if not all of them, meet that. More recently, there have been pitchers DFA'd pretty regularly who are significantly better. My point was only that finding starters who suck but are still better than Lincecum is really not as hard as people seem to think as it is.

frankly, every org, including ours probably had guys who could have performed better than Tim over that span he was allowed to pitch.  But there were other factors.  By all accounts, he was actually throwing better in his showcase and in the minors than he ended up for the halos.  Plus, of the guy available, who would you consider as having the best chance to give you meaningful innings over the remainder of the season.  Chris Jones, Kyle Kendrick, David Huff, Zach Nuding or Tim Lincecum.  

I am totally fine with the halos taking a chance on him.  Because we paid him a little more money, we probably trotted him out there two time too many, but there was always that chance it would click.  It didn't come close, but it was worth a shot.  We are really no worse for wear.  I'd rather take a shot with Tim then cart out any one of the other guys I mentioned or any of the guys you mentioned.  

[Dick B Back]

1 hour ago, arch stanton said:

It was fun to watch history unfold in front of us. More so than just run of the mill suckage. Now we'll have to settle for plain old poor pitching from the next guy. That's just irritating.

I always appreciate the use of "suckage" in a post!

[Oz27]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

frankly, every org, including ours probably had guys who could have performed better than Tim over that span he was allowed to pitch.  But there were other factors.  By all accounts, he was actually throwing better in his showcase and in the minors than he ended up for the halos.  Plus, of the guy available, who would you consider as having the best chance to give you meaningful innings over the remainder of the season.  Chris Jones, Kyle Kendrick, David Huff, Zach Nuding or Tim Lincecum.  

I am totally fine with the halos taking a chance on him.  Because we paid him a little more money, we probably trotted him out there two time too many, but there was always that chance it would click.  It didn't come close, but it was worth a shot.  We are really no worse for wear.  I'd rather take a shot with Tim then cart out any one of the other guys I mentioned or any of the guys you mentioned.  

Valid points. I don't think it was unreasonable to take a chance on him. I just find it a bit silly when people act like there was no alternative when we brought him in or when we kept running him out there because there was. Marginally below replacement level pitchers (i.e. someone who would still be much better than Lincecum) are not difficult to acquire. My only complaint about the whole thing is we kept beating that dead horse for so damn long when alternatives kept being put on waivers.

[Sciosciapath]

On 8/5/2016 at 11:17 PM, yamsi12 said:

From the looks of it he is.

[ELEVEN]

19 hours ago, disarcina said:

are you sure we didn't extend Kazmir -- I thought we did -- his contract went from $8 million in 2010 (he was 9-15 for us that season) to $12 million in 2011 (was that his TB Rays' contract?) and in 2011 for all money - he pitched one game for us.......was out all of 2012 and 2013 (perhaps partially on our dime -- not sure) and then signed with Cleveland and wound up in Oakland where he re-jump started his career.........now he's signed with the Dogs through 2018 for the largest contracts of his career ($18 million for 2018)

Here's a guy who I was sure was DONE when the Angels finally released him - and the Halos gave him every chance in every different kind of pitching role to come around to his early years (Mets prospect, Tampa Bay rotation guy who either led or was near top in K's in AL for 3 straight years)........during the time before he was completely shut down, I remember watching him pitch and it looked like he was bored with the game and would rather be anywhere else put pitching in MLB.

then, suddenly, he's out for two seasons and now he's climbed back into a contender's rotation........

Cough* Mike Butcher *cough...