Would you trade Yunel Escobar?

[Angelsjunky]

If you can get a top prospect for him, or two good to very good prospects, absofuckinglutely. But I don't think Eppler can get that. Maybe a grade B and grade C+ prospect at best.

[WallyWorld]

totally dependent on what they can get in return for him. It sucks that his peak value is coinciding with a really weak market for 3B. 

[Angels#1Fan]

1 hour ago, eligrba4ever said:

Other people have more confidence in Cowart than I do. Yes, he can pick up the ball and throw it straight. But can he see the ball? Can he HIT the ball? In the American League?

From what I've seen so far, he's Romine, not Glaus. Admittedly, it's a small sample. But ...

Unless he starts to hit at the ML level Cowart is just another good field no hit minor leaguer.

I suspect he'll get a chance sometime this year assuming the Angels are still out of it, but he'll need to hit to convince me that he belongs on the big club.

[ettin]

4 hours ago, Dochalo said:

It's clear he has figured something out at the plate but at age 33, you run the risk of just not being able to do what he's anymore.  If I felt like we had any shot to compete next year then I would definitely keep him but I don't.  The reason I don't is that I don't want to see us sell off a bunch of farm pieces (what little we have) to give us what might be a very outside shot at making the playoffs.  I guess what I am saying is that I am afraid of what we would have to do to compete in 2017 and I don't think it would be in the best interest of the club for the long term or even the next 3-5yrs.  

The batting average and obp are very sexy.  The one thing I would caution, however, is giving Escobar all of the credit for the offensive turnaround from last year to this one.  We had a Calhoun and a fair amount of Aybar at the top last year along with a bunch of others.  Not only did Escobar replace the others, but Calhoun's obp has gone from .308 to .364.  Another huge factor in all of this.  

And we need a lot more than offense to help us for the foreseeable future.  

By the time 2018 rolls around, I would hope there would be an opportunity to add a player who could produce similarly from the leadoff spot or.........you put calhoun there and Trout second.  Then you fill other positions that are offensive outliers with better players like in LF and 2b.  Which is essentially what we had going in 2014 when our offense was the best in baseball.  That year, there wasn't one players who's offensive skills were overly spectacular outside of Trout.  It was just a good, well balanced offense.  League average production from LF and 2b or perhaps slightly above would go a long to making this offense very good.  

The bottom line is that I would absolutely trade him now as long as the return was solid.  It doesn't even have to be great as far as I'm concerned, because it's not going to get any better and I don't want to see the team do desperate things in other places in order to think they can compete next year.  

Hi @Dochalo,

So I do agree with you that Escobar probably is the major piece we move at this trade deadline. Additionally I agree with, you, AO, and others that he is not getting any younger and the idea of extending him doesn't make a lot of sense because of where he is at on the aging curve and his defensive limitations.

Lately though, prompted by, of all people, @Troll Daddy, I have been giving serious thought and consideration to 2017 and I think there is a clear and real route for the Angels to compete and that path lies through Matt Shoemaker and Tyler Skaggs.

I explain myself fully in the final installment of the Trade Series Wrap Up which should be on the site shortly so I won't repeat the whole article but I provide a sample series of roster moves, signings and trades that would put us back into a competitive stance for 2017 and set the stage for 2018. It includes your suggestion regarding Kenley Jansen too @Dochalo.

Will it be difficult to achieve? Possibly. In such a poor market with pitching as tight as it is it might not be plausible. Also it relies on the fact that Shoemaker has to maintain what he's done recently and Skaggs has to continue what he was doing down in the Minors (last night was a good start to that).

[2112]

If he net you a starting pitcher that is  close to MLB ready, I think go ahead and trade him.

 

if not put him at 2nd and trade Gio for box of balls.  

[Chuck]

7 minutes ago, NotMyCat said:

If he net you a starting pitcher that is  close to MLB ready, I think go ahead and trade him.

That or a prospect, near major league ready LF. 

[CaliAngel]

No.

I don't know why everyone hates on the guy. He's batting .326 has an OPS of .790 is one of the best leadoff batters we've had in YEARS besides Trout, and for some reason people want to dump him? It makes no sense. I can't imagine what our record would be if he wasn't on base to start the first inning to allow guys like Calhoun, Trout, or Pujols to knock him in and get some runs in early.

I know he makes boneheaded plays on defense but so did Aybar, but he never hit this well. And I know he isn't the best defensively but he's also made spectacular plays this season that IMO make up for his mistakes. Plays where any other 3rd baseman we've had in a long while would have biffed.

I'm fine with keeping him at 3rd and having him lead off. It's nice to finally have a solid leadoff batter as well.

I loved last night when he smacked the first pitch of the game for a hit to get things going. How can you not appreciate that?

[ettin]

I don't think anyone here hates on him it's just that his age, remaining contract length, and below average defense don't fit particularly well long term. Yes he's having a great year (notably making his trade value just about as high as it can be) but what if age starts creeping in on him next year?

Unfortunately there is a time and place where you have to cut bait with every player and if Eppler trades him now he is likely selling him at the highest value he will ever have in the next year.

[mulwin444]

His "fit" is he gets on base which this team needs but they also have only 3 SPs signed for next season plus a rookie in AAA.  If you can get SP for him, you make the deal

[Oz27]

6 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

His "fit" is he gets on base which this team needs but they also have only 3 SPs signed for next season plus a rookie in AAA.  If you can get SP for him, you make the deal

Even if it's not a "right now" starter, but a decent prospect in the upper minors (or even the lower minors) it makes no sense at all to hold onto him if the market values him at that level.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, ettin said:

Hi @Dochalo,

So I do agree with you that Escobar probably is the major piece we move at this trade deadline. Additionally I agree with, you, AO, and others that he is not getting any younger and the idea of extending him doesn't make a lot of sense because of where he is at on the aging curve and his defensive limitations.

Lately though, prompted by, of all people, @Troll Daddy, I have been giving serious thought and consideration to 2017 and I think there is a clear and real route for the Angels to compete and that path lies through Matt Shoemaker and Tyler Skaggs.

I explain myself fully in the final installment of the Trade Series Wrap Up which should be on the site shortly so I won't repeat the whole article but I provide a sample series of roster moves, signings and trades that would put us back into a competitive stance for 2017 and set the stage for 2018. It includes your suggestion regarding Kenley Jansen too @Dochalo.

Will it be difficult to achieve? Possibly. In such a poor market with pitching as tight as it is it might not be plausible. Also it relies on the fact that Shoemaker has to maintain what he's done recently and Skaggs has to continue what he was doing down in the Minors (last night was a good start to that).

there is a path to compete for 2017.  

Sign, Cespedes, Jansen, Justin Turner (2b), another pen arm, and a couple of starting pitchers on 1yr deals who are trying to re-establish their value.  or trade what little we have developing in the farm for a couple of starters.  I don't necessarily like our options but hey, it could be done.  

I just don't like any potential option for SP and even the thought of bringing in Cespedes and Turner makes me very queasy because of their age.  

Even if they want to spend a little money as opposed to going big in the FA market like adding Prado to play 2b and someone like Saunders to play LF, I would be ok with that I guess.  But I really hope they don't sacrifice the future for 2017.  

That's all I ask.  

[The God of Runs]

Keep him for the Halos 2016 playoff run

[Ohtaniland]

Shoot the Shit

 

That is all

[disarcina]

I would hold out for a top prospect and if that isn't happening -- then I would feel comfortable keeping him for 2017 and even possibly extending him.

He's been stellar at the top of the line up for the Halos -- but not great at 3B.

If the Halos keep him, he really needs to be in a platoon at 3B/ DH for 2017 and Halos need to acquire or develop from their farm system a slick fielding 3B with some speed (to PR in late innings and then play 3B to spell Escobar) to platoon at 3B..........when Escobar starts at 3B, the slick fielder PRs in the late innings and takes over at 3B, when the slick fielder starts at 3B and if Escobar is not DHing (because Pujols is) then Escobar PH for the slick fielder in the late innings.......

fortunately with Simmons at SS, you have a guy who can cover 3B/ SS side of the field.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

10 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Also, we all know Cowart can play a better 3B than Escobar, but can he hit enough at the major league level to be someone we can build around? Who replaces Escobar at the leadoff spot if we trade him? For once, since Chone Figgins, we got a guy that gets on base and hits for a high average a top the lineup. It has been since 2009 folks. 

 

Cowart has an 11 game hitting streak in Salt Lake and hitting .289 with an OBP near .350. We will never know if he can hit major league pitching if we don't give him a chance. I''m pretty sure he couldn't hit worse than Marte. He might not hit as many HRs, but in all probability he will hit for a higher average than Marte.

If we have no one else to lead off, Calhoun this season is getting on base at .360 pace. He isn't going to hit .320 but he hits more HRs than Escobar.

[ten ocho recon scout]

it sucks, i mentioned in another thread, its fun to see us with a real leadoff hitter again. and he is absolutely one of the key components to why we are scoring. 

but were out of the fight, and maybe im just a downer, but were out of it next year, too. it sucks, but losing a G-rich, heaney and trop for 2 seasons is tough for any team to absorb.

escobar has value right now, and holding him could come back to bite...holding him and he stays hot, in all reality, doesnt get us much either (with our pitching the way it is). lets be honest...we need a 2B and LF. thats without mentioning we need 3 starters ( at least. counting the guys weve lost to injury, you also will have to replace weaver, Lincecum, chacin, etc). we also need to replace salas...and smith...possibly street.

a badass leadoff hitter doesnt change that.

i wont complain if we keep him, but if he nets us something that helps us when our depth (projects to) rrturn, do it, even if its for something of lesser value (a nice bullpen guy).

either way, kudos to eppler for a very solid trade. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 hours ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

You'r missing one highly important detail.  Whatever pitcher the Angels do acquire, must have a surname that begins with an "S", otherwise he simply won't fit our scheme. 

Shoe, Santiago, Skaggs, Smith and _______________.  IRhg know our best bet is Sabathia, or maybe Shields 

was thinking about that the other day. with the current run, Shoe, Skaggs and Santiago should be nicknamed something positive with an S, like SSSweet. the pen, with Street, Smith and Salas would be SSShit.

[Robrock30]

Keep Escobar who is leading off, hitting .325 and is a multi-positional 3B through the trading deadline.  The alternative is Who's on 3B, Who's leadoff, and Who's setting the table.  Until there are answers stay the course.

 

[eaterfan]

4 hours ago, Robrock30 said:

Keep Escobar who is leading off, hitting .325 and is a multi-positional 3B through the trading deadline.  The alternative is Who's on 3B, Who's leadoff, and Who's setting the table.  Until there are answers stay the course.

 

The question is how far has having a "3B" and leadoff hitter gotten us? 10 games below .500. Something has to change next year. And not small changes. The Angels are going to have to take chances to improve because the status quo isn't cutting it. Despite him hitting .325 he's only on pace for about 3 WAR. I think Cowart can easily put up 2 over a full season. I think Escobar is very replaceable in the short term and has no long term value to the franchise.

[stormngt]

Why can't Escobar play 2b?  Isn't an easier throw to first base?  Wasn't originally a middle infielder?  Wouldn't he be better than Gio?

[eaterfan]

37 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Why can't Escobar play 2b?  Isn't an easier throw to first base?  Wasn't originally a middle infielder?  Wouldn't he be better than Gio?

Yes. And if they keep him I'd like them too move him to 2B, but how much better than Gio is he? Probably about 2 wins. I don't think it will be that hard to get a good amount more future value than that in a trade.

[Angel Oracle]

13 hours ago, ettin said:

I don't think anyone here hates on him it's just that his age, remaining contract length, and below average defense don't fit particularly well long term. Yes he's having a great year (notably making his trade value just about as high as it can be) but what if age starts creeping in on him next year?

Unfortunately there is a time and place where you have to cut bait with every player and if Eppler trades him now he is likely selling him at the highest value he will ever have in the next year.

Exactly, this is one of those things that separates good from poor GMs, knowing when to sell and when to buy.

[totdprods]

Unfortunately it seems like Escobar's value is peaking at it's highest at a time when the 3B market is dead. Holding onto him into next year may play out better. Even if his value drops, the market may increase enough to make up for the difference.

And while he is capable of playing other positions, he's been at 3B long enough now that if you are looking at acquiring him for a new position, as an opposing GM I would try and pay less in that scenario in case that position change doesn't translate.

I'm pretty sure we wind up holding onto him. Smith is the only one I'm expecting dealt at this point, and he may not even go until the waiver deadline period in August.

[Jimmag]

I say keep him he is a hit machine. Best lead off man this team has had maybe... EVER!

[Troll Daddy]

I agree ... Escobar's trade value is at its highest. Only thing missing is the buyer. I expect Eppler to rob the buyer blind on a deadline trade that we don't really need to make at this time. 

If you can't find that buyer ... then screw it. You don't trade even if it's a fair trade.