Joe Maddon

[JoJo26]

51 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I like Joe Maddon, but to pretend he is all that different than Scioscia is laughable.  

Didn't he guide the Tampa Bay Devil Rays to the World Series? 2 years after losing 101 games? Then had FOUR MORE 90 + win seasons with Tampa?

New gig: 97 wins last year with the Cubbies and 51 so far this season?

PLUS - he has 17 playoffs W's since 2008

Scioscia has THREE....(Seven since 2002)

 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

Hell we have people on here that think Dipoto walks on water, when in reality the guy did a shitty job in a lot of areas.  I honestly think the only person we universally agree on is Hatcher. 

 

Dipoto? Really? JD was not the problem with this organization or the reason for it's dysfunction.

JD was merely a symptom of the disease that it's infected with..

Dipoto did what he could in a very short time with a meddling owner an egocentric manager. His situation was untenable and he walked out mid season because he couldn't do what he wanted to do in the FO and he couldn't communicate with the field manager who had no respect for him.

Did a shitty job you say? He didn't even get a chance to do ANY job. Much of that fact is on your hero Mike Scioscia and his protector and benefactor (and nutsack carrier)  Arte Moreno.

He directed the farm system to draft a certain way, it got us nothing.  His BEST free agent signing was CJ Wilson.  He signed Blanton.  He traded for Matt Joyce.  He traded away Grichuk and Bourjos.  Those are all things that are mutually exclusive to the issues between him and Mike and him and Arte.  Dipoto did most aspects of his job poorly and this is coming from a guy that would choose him over Mike.  Part of a GM's job is to sway an owner.  I can only assume he sucked at that part of his job.  Fact is the team got worse not better under him. 

[Homebrewer]

Come on Strad...JD came into a front office, with talent evaluators, scouting departments, minor league systems, and everything else in that FO and the organization...including the field management.. already in place. He didn't bring in, or fire anyone that I know of. To contend that he "directed" anyone to draft a certain way is naïve to what his situation really was.

If anything, Stoneman and Arte were still the driving force in that FO, and Dipoto was the guy who fronted to the media and fans etc.

He now has a situation in Seattle where he is the "REAL" GM...and let's see how he does there in the same 3 years (or less) then we can look back and fairly compare that to what he was able to do in the uniformed little kingdom that Arte and Scioscia run in Anaheim. 

[Homebrewer]

25 minutes ago, JoJo26 said:

Didn't he guide the Tampa Bay Devil Rays to the World Series? 2 years after losing 101 games? Then had FOUR MORE 90 + win seasons with Tampa?

New gig: 97 wins last year with the Cubbies and 51 so far this season?

PLUS - he has 17 playoffs W's since 2008

Scioscia has THREE....(Seven since 2002)

 

I bring this up every time Strad and I have this little argument.

[Taylor]

49 minutes ago, Tank said:

The real question is what would Maddon be able to do with the talent we currently have on this team? The answer that there is absolutely no way to measure something like that.

He would have used his mojo to heal Richards and Heaney of their injuries.

[Stradling]

53 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

I bring this up every time Strad and I have this little argument.

Talent and front line starters.  Has Scioscia ever had an Arrieta or a David Price?  

[Stradling]

We did have Weaver and Greinke but no bullpen that year.  

[yk9001]

16 hours ago, nate said:

Love his creativity.  Has anyone ever done that before with relievers?

Its called the ol Waxahachie Swap.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/bo-porter-managers-astros-tony-sipp-waxahachie-swap-paul-richards-061114

[Homebrewer]

Usually you see moves like that on teams that aren't good, in a blowout, much later in the season.

What makes that game even more unique is that he had the balls to do that kind of managing on a team that's 30 games over 500 in game 76 of the season.

[Blarg]

He did an assortment of lineup changes to try and win in extra innings. It showed no patience more so than creativity. It wasn't balls,  it was painting himself into a corner but by inning 15 the other team finally ran out of pitchers. He got lucky with the win,  had he lost you guys wouldn't have said a word then went on with your Maddon the miraculous cult. 

[Homebrewer]

36 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Talent and front line starters.  Has Scioscia ever had an Arrieta or a David Price?  

What Scioscia has never had, Strad, is an owner who was smart enough to lay out a bunch of blank checks and hire the best FO people in the business, and then allow them the latitude do what was needed to build a winner...not just for the next year or two, but for the foreseeable future. 

It sort of looked like that might happen during the 2000's first decade, but the results were still up and down even during that best decade of the Angels existence. Arte promised that when he bought the club, and while he meant well, he allowed the club to develop tunnel vision and exclude avenues like International scouting.

(The Cubs are already bringing up their future stars, and they are international players they drafted and signed just a couple years ago. Look up Contrares or Almora Jr if you don't know what they are doing...and then ask yourself Scioscia would put these kids in the lineup and leave them there when the Angels were beating the world)...but I digress.

 Then Arte made the biggest mistake yet in giving Scioscia a new decade long contract at the end of a fairly decent decade, and that was like throwing a huge anchor overboard when the ship was beginning to gain real direction and momentum.

You think I hate Scioscia, but I don't...I hate what he represents. The old ways stop working at some point, no matter what the endeavor in life is. Arte made the mistake of thinking he had it figured out and the best course was to keep things the way they were. That's almost always a recipe for disaster in today's world. 

Ohhh and PS...Anyone could have Arietta right now, he was available for peanuts just a short while back. Why do you think it was that the Cubbies got him?

[Homebrewer]

The butt-hurt is rampant around here today...talk about a cult.

[Stradling]

17 minutes ago, shine said:

The real question? Would the Angels organization be in this mess if Scioscia was fired years ago. The teams Scioscia has had over years. Joe might have won a few World Series.

Yes it would because we'd still be paying for Hamilton and Albert and we'd still have a horrible farm system. 

[California Cajun]

22 hours ago, Slegnaac said:

Last night in an extra innings game he had two relief pitchers on the field at the same time, one in left field and the other on the mound.  He rotated the two based on the left / right match-ups.  Cubs won it in the 15th inning. 

It looks like the Cubs year.

[Slegnaac]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

He did an assortment of lineup changes to try and win in extra innings. It showed no patience more so than creativity. It wasn't balls,  it was painting himself into a corner but by inning 15 the other team finally ran out of pitchers. He got lucky with the win,  had he lost you guys wouldn't have said a word then went on with your Maddon the miraculous cult. 

I wouldn't say that it was "balls" on Joe's part.  Cincinnati could have put a pitcher in the field as well.  I guess they didn't want to do something that is against the conventional wisdom. 

[Dick B Back]

No manager could do anything with the talent on this team. Period.

[Tank]

4 hours ago, shine said:

The real question? Would the Angels organization be in this mess if Scioscia was fired years ago. The teams Scioscia has had over years. Joe might have won a few World Series.

there's absolutely no way to quantify this. it's a fun mental exercise, but that's all it is.

[Tank]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

similar to what he did when his tampa teams lacked talent.  

did those tampa teams also have the extent of injuries our current roster has? i think that's a major consideration in this discussion.

[Brent Maguire]

Joe Maddon is a fantastic coach but he'd barely make an impact on the Angels roster. This team skus. 

[arch stanton]

Is this the same Joe Maddon who got schooled by Terry Collins in the NLCS last year?

[Chuck]

9 hours ago, California Cajun said:

It looks like the Cubs year.

I'm pulling for one of the Indians, Orioles, Mets and Giants.

[JoJo26]

I'm pretty sure that Maddon WOULD NOT HAVE kept putting Steve Finely out there in CF....ESPECIALLY in the ALDS....Scioscia and his stupid "veteran loyalty" - I cheer every time Napoli goes yard or drives in another run.

Jeff Mathis over me? Really?

 

[Homebrewer]

He's (Naps) playing for Cleveland now...they seem to win wherever he goes.

[Lou]

lol @ anyone who says we won the WS because of Maddon. 

[Stradling]

Maddon knows the cure for cancer but Scioscia won't let him share it.