Are the Angels as bad as their record?

[Angel Oracle]

The starting pitching has partly contributed to the crappy bullpen performance, causing it to be overworked by rarely pitching over 5-6 innings anymore.

[AngelArcher]

This thread needs a tdawg type poll. 

 

[Mark68]

4 hours ago, yk9001 said:

We got what?

Last place.

[Mark68]

We are a lot more than a bat, a bullpen arm, and a solid rotation piece from competing.

Therefore, we suck. Probably worse than our record.

[bloodbrother]

They're just about 3 relievers, 3 starters, and 3 bats away from being really good.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

4 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

2021 should be a very good year. We should have enough talent by then to surround Trout and make us a contender.

That's assuming we re-sign him, of course.

 

The scary thing is that Pujols will still be under contract for $30M that season (it's the last year of the deal).

[Docwaukee]

If they had Richards and Heaney, they would be fine considering Shoe's performance and progression of both trop and Skaggs.  Could they have used an impact top of the rotation guy?  Sure, but who wouldn't.  Even if Shoe continues what he's doing and we get Skaggs and Trop in there, the rest isn't going to cut it.  Next year is a problem as well.  You aren't likely to fix the rotation for 2017.  I just don't see the appropriate resources available to do it.  

I agree the offense is fine.  An impact LF bat changes the entire complexion of the lineup.  You'd think that would be an easy fix, but apparently it's not.  

The bullpen is a complete and total disaster.  They have been overexposed yes, but even if they were exposed appropriately, they would still suck.  There's just no talent.  You could replace Street, Smith, Salas, Alvarez and Morin with Bedrosian, Guerra, and three guys from AAA, and it would essentially provide the same level of production if not improve.  

So yes, we are who our record says we are and we are going to be for awhile.  

[Angel Oracle]

Eppler is smart to build for 2018 and beyond.   Hopefully by then, Richards, Heaney, and Skaggs are all pitching again and we will have a REAL bullpen. 

[70runner]

One more reliable bat around...Pujols?  The same $240M cleanup hitter who's OBP has been below MLB average since midseason 2014?

Short of Trout, Calhoun, there's nothing on this team of value, least of all Scioscia's turn-the-page demeanor while his team flounders 18 games behind the Rangers.  Yea, yea, I know it's never Scioscia's fault.  Just like Obama. 

Rebuild, retool, selloff, blow it up, whatever, for every option the Angels are stuck with Pujols & Scioscia.  Trying to restore a competitive oval track car with the wrong steering wheel and an overweight, bald tire.

[LAA Road Tripper]

In 2014 the question was "Are the Angels as good as their record?" I think the same question applies this year under a slightly different circumstances.

[Grigori]

The Rangers rotation is currently without Darvish, Holland and Lewis, yet they still win. Just beat the Yankees last night  The Rangers lost Choo, Chirinos and Griffin for parts of this season, too. Adrian Beltre was out a few games. Kela has been out almost all season long. I'm not sure it's the injuries is all I'm saying. Other teams survive massive injuries.  Look what the Rangers went through last year with injuries, but they won the Division.

 

 

 

[Oz27]

5 minutes ago, Grigori said:

The Rangers rotation is currently without Darvish, Holland and Lewis, yet they still win. Just beat the Yankees last night  The Rangers lost Choo, Chirinos and Griffin for parts of this season, too. Adrian Beltre was out a few games. Kela has been out almost all season long. I'm not sure it's the injuries is all I'm saying. Other teams survive massive injuries.  Look what the Rangers went through last year with injuries, but they won the Division.

 

 

 

As tempted as I am to just post a picture of Bautista's homer or Freese's homer, this guy is right.

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, Kevinb said:

So it's the bullpens fault we had the bases loaded zero outs in the bottom of the ninth and couldn't score a single run. Wait wait your right we gave up 4 runs total last night and we managed to score 2. That definitely falls on the pitching staff. 

OPS+ of 97.  ERA+ of 91.    People can cherry pick individual instances -- but yeah... the pitching staff is the biggest problem -- this was the case last year too.

Run prevention >>>> Run production.

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, 70runner said:

One more reliable bat around...Pujols?  The same $240M cleanup hitter who's OBP has been below MLB average since midseason 2014?

Short of Trout, Calhoun, there's nothing on this team of value, least of all Scioscia's turn-the-page demeanor while his team flounders 18 games behind the Rangers.  Yea, yea, I know it's never Scioscia's fault.  Just like Obama. 

Rebuild, retool, selloff, blow it up, whatever, for every option the Angels are stuck with Pujols & Scioscia.  Trying to restore a competitive oval track car with the wrong steering wheel and an overweight, bald tire.

Is this year Scioscia's fault?  

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

OPS+ of 97.  ERA+ of 91.    People can cherry pick individual instances -- but yeah... the pitching staff is the biggest problem -- this was the case last year too.

Run prevention >>>> Run production.

So Simmons is important?  

[kevinb]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

OPS+ of 97.  ERA+ of 91.    People can cherry pick individual instances -- but yeah... the pitching staff is the biggest problem -- this was the case last year too.

Run prevention >>>> Run production.

I don't know what you just said with the plus stuff. The Angels had bases loaded and were down 2 runs with zero outs and allowed 4 runs that game and lost because they couldn't score. If any team scores 2 runs a game your not going to win very many games. Bullpen sucks I agree but so does the starting pitching, defense and hitting. It's not one problem it's all 4

[disarcina]

the current Halos won-loss record is not reflective of this club............

THEY'RE ACTUALLY WORSE.......

 

[stormngt]

10 hours ago, Torridd said:

I would say we're in 90% of the games and then lose them. Bullpen is horrid (Salas, Alvarez, Guerra) or injured. Starters are injured. I think one more reliable bat (around Escobar, Trout, Calhoun, Pujols) could shore up the order. Cron is too wishy-washy and we don't know about Marte yet.

 

Am I being idealistic?

We are t hat bad because our pitching is that bad.  

[kevinb]

10 minutes ago, stormngt said:

We are t hat bad because our pitching is that bad.  

Our hitting is also pretty bad same with slg and obp

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, Kevinb said:

I don't know what you just said with the plus stuff. The Angels had bases loaded and were down 2 runs with zero outs and allowed 4 runs that game and lost because they couldn't score. If any team scores 2 runs a game your not going to win very many games. Bullpen sucks I agree but so does the starting pitching, defense and hitting. It's not one problem it's all 4

First -- I don't think there is any disagreement that the team is not good.   As far as the plus stuff goes --  the league average is 100.    So a 97 means they are 3% below average....   103 would mean 3% above average.   It's just a way to try to normalize and park adjust the raw numbers.

So basically.... when compared to their league average the Angels bats are less crappy than the Angels pitchers.  But both are below average.

[disarcina]

some of the comments here remind me of years ago the approach Vin Scully took when the Dodgers were going through a subpar - less than .500 ball season, about 15 games out of first.......Vin Scully, who everyone loves, as do I, as a great broadcaster -- but that year the team was terrible and rather than say that - Scully marveled on about 'how many one run games the Dodgers have been involved in (and LOST)"  "Geez, they lost 17 one run games (whatever the number was)."

So here, "hey, we've lost a lot of game where we were ahead by 2 runs entering the 7th inning........." sounds a lot like that......bottom line.......Halos lose tonight and I think their 'winning' (or is it 'losing') percentage will drop to about .400.......

Angels need to get closer to .500 before the All Star break to make the second half worth watching -- even if they never quite compete for a playoff spot......if they're hovering at .400 or below at the All Star Break - well, it's going to be a long August/ September staggering to the end of the season.

 

 

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

First -- I don't think there is any disagreement that the team is not good.   As far as the plus stuff goes --  the league average is 100.    So a 97 means they are 3% below average....   103 would mean 3% above average.   It's just a way to try to normalize and park adjust the raw numbers.

So basically.... when compared to their league average the Angels bats are less crappy than the Angels pitchers.  But both are below average.

Ok cool never knew that. Random question so league average being 15th out of the 30 teams? 

[fan_since79]

The way this team is 'playing' right now, they could lose 100 games easily.

 

[Oz27]

2 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

The way this team is 'playing' right now, they could lose 100 games easily.

 

On pace to go 66-96 and things will only get worse assuming we trade the likes of Escobar. I now see 100 losses as likely.

[fan_since79]

2 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

On pace to go 66-96 and things will only get worse assuming we trade the likes of Escobar. I now see 100 losses as likely.

The schedule will be getting harder soon too. This was supposed to be an 'easy' stretch against two lower division opponents.

Of course, Houston had been improving a lot.

There's a brutal 10-game road trip through the AL East starting on Friday.