Bill Gates explains why we need government re: climate, and "the private sector is inept"

[nate]

How would we know when there are huge restrictions on the private sector?  We will never know what the private sector can do because they are taxed, regulated and forced into doing what people like you think they should be doing.

 

Imagine if Bernie got his way and taxed Bill Gates 60%... Do you think he would have done all of this philanthropy?  No, instead his money would be spent inefficiently on self serving government programs.

[Angelsjunky]

nate, do you realize that taxes are historically low and have been that way since the Reagan administration? What do you want to go back to, the Robber Baron era? There was no income taxes back then and we saw how that turned out.

 

Actually, the time in which this country thrived the most economically, the 50s into the early 70s, is when taxes on the very wealthy were at their highest. Explain that.

 

Anyhow, I don't disagree that government is corrupt and inefficient, I just don't think the private sector is any better. Libertarians see the govt as the boogeyman, but corruption and self-serving is endemic in all areas of human activity.

[Jay]

There you go with the low taxes meme again. Such nonsense.

[Blarg]

nate, do you realize that taxes are historically low and have been that way since the Reagan administration? What do you want to go back to, the Robber Baron era? There was no income taxes back then and we saw how that turned out.

 

Actually, the time in which this country thrived the most economically, the 50s into the early 70s, is when taxes on the very wealthy were at their highest. Explain that.

 

Anyhow, I don't disagree that government is corrupt and inefficient, I just don't think the private sector is any better. Libertarians see the govt as the boogeyman, but corruption and self-serving is endemic in all areas of human activity.

 

It was the 50's - 70's there was no NAFTA, the US car market dominated, US Steel and Forestry provided our building resources, there was no outsourcing. The US provided most of it's own products domestically. It was nothing like it is today. The government can't make it's money from business because they have systematically pushed it across the border or overseas so the only real source is the consumer.

 

Live in your bubble.

[Angelsjunky]

It was the 50's - 70's there was no NAFTA, the US car market dominated, US Steel and Forestry provided our building resources, there was no outsourcing. The US provided most of it's own products domestically. It was nothing like it is today. The government can't make it's money from business because they have systematically pushed it across the border or overseas so the only real source is the consumer.

 

Live in your bubble.

 

So you're saying these issues are complex? No shit. But taxes are part of that complex picture.

 

And Eric, I know you guys think you live in reality and liberals are deluded, but we all live in bubbles.

[nate]

The problem is, yours is just as bad as the religious right forcing your set of morals on the country.  Yours is just about perceived compassion for the less fortunate.

 

Libertarianism is about freedom.  Something both the left and the right don't have a grasp on.

[Angelsjunky]

nate, I fully admit to not knowing all the answers. But at least I realize I live in a bubble. You think you live in "reality," that you somehow know the truth of things. This is classic Randian fallacy, aka objectivism. In my view that is one of worst and most dangerous kinds of ignorance: not realizing your own ignorance. This allows one to live in a black and white world, where I am right and you are wrong.

 

An example is Libertarianism. I like freedom too, but believe it must be balanced with other things - such as the rights and well-being of others. What libertarianism lacks is a knowledge of community and inter-connectedness. It is based upon the fantasy of having your own kingdom - something that was more relevant three hundred years ago, but doesn't quite work as well today (and even then it was often at the expense of those being pushed back by "American freedom").

Edited April 14, 2016 by Angelsjunky

[Adam]

I'm pretty sure I'm impotent after reading that post. 

[nate]

"but believe"

 

Only important part of that entire post.  You didn't say anything but "blah blah blah I think it should be different."

 

The religious right believes that if we don't live as Jesus wants then the rapture will happen.  You are the exact same you just want to force a different set of morals on us.  More expensive too.

 

You don't have to say you like freedom.  Your constant posts in this forum have already expressed to us that you in fact do not.

[Angelsjunky]

LOL, if that's how you (mis)understand my view, I don't know what to say. But you're quite wrong. I'm not forcing my morals on anyone. If you insist on your delusions nate, well, you have the freedom to do so. See, I like freedom!

 

To be honest, though, the libertarianism you espouse sounds a bit like a toddler who says, "No, don't want to. I can do what I want!" Is that the freedom you mean? The problem with the toddler is that they don't realize how their "freedom" affects others.

 

Adam, you're kind of the anti-intellectual of the forum. You remind me of George Dubya when he was debating Kerry, appealing to uneducated. "Does anyone have any idea what he's talking about?"

[nate]

You are calling me a toddler but you are the one that wants the government to act like your mommy and daddy to take care of you because you are incompetent and can't do it yourself.  Stealing money from people by way of tax and forcing government "protections" on people is the antithesis of freedom.

 

The world must have really sucked for you when you finally moved out of your parents basement and had to face it all by your wittle self.

[Adam]

An insult from a person like yourself (someone so intellectually average, and so insecure about it) is counted as a compliment. Thank you, sir. 

 

Continue on with your convenient worldview where nothing is right and nothing is wrong and no one is accountable. 

[Adam]

You are calling me a toddler but you are the one that wants the government to act like your mommy and daddy to take care of you because you are incompetent and can't do it yourself.  Stealing money from people by way of tax and forcing government "protections" on people is the antithesis of freedom.

 

The world must have really sucked for you when you finally moved out of your parents basement and had to face it all by your wittle self.

 

lol @ "wittle"

[Thomas]

An example is Libertarianism. I like freedom too, but believe it must be balanced with other things - such as the rights and well-being of others. What libertarianism lacks is a knowledge of community and inter-connectedness. It is based upon the fantasy of having your own kingdom - something that was more relevant three hundred years ago, but doesn't quite work as well today (and even then it was often at the expense of those being pushed back by "American freedom").

 

To be fair the US government really did install a sense of community and inter-connectedness in my ancestors when they rounded them up and confined them to reservations.  This to ensure the well being of the nation and to protect the rights of industry. Sadly I couldn't come up with a more recent example of the government ruining the lives of a less privileged population for the sake of those here in this country...

[nate]

To be fair the US government really did install a sense of community and inter-connectedness in my ancestors when they rounded them up and confined them to reservations.  This to ensure the well being of the nation and to protect the rights of industry. Sadly I couldn't come up with a more recent example of the government ruining the lives of a less privileged population for the sake of those here in this country...

 

You mean other than the third world countries we have installed governments that would be friendly with us for monetary gain?  Or the countries we have bombed for monetary gain?

 

What about manipulating international markets via embargos for economic gain?

[Blarg]

So you're saying these issues are complex? No shit. But taxes are part of that complex picture.

 

And Eric, I know you guys think you live in reality and liberals are deluded, but we all live in bubbles.

 

It's not complex at all AJ. The source of taxation of income shifted to where the government can draw the most. Once they weakened the US made market by lifting tariffs and allowing a global glut of cheaper foreign products we doomed our own manufacturing. You could blame the Walmart businesses or you could look at the Senate and ask why they allowed this. It all boils down to the government, not business creating the world we live in now.

[Tank]

the more of my money the gov't takes, the more power and control they have over me. 

 

i have zero interest in that happening. i don't want to be dependent on the gov't for everything.

[nate]

Also, it has already been proven that they do a poor job as far as efficiency so really AJ just wants us to give more money to the government so they can spend it on what he wants them to in an inefficient manner.

[Adam]

It's not complex at all AJ. The source of taxation of income shifted to where the government can draw the most. Once they weakened the US made market by lifting tariffs and allowing a global glut of cheaper foreign products we doomed our own manufacturing. You could blame the Walmart businesses or you could look at the Senate and ask why they allowed this. It all boils down to the government, not business creating the world we live in now.

 

This is the problem the world has with people like AJ. Non-contributors with a God complex desire to complicate the world so that they can experience fulfillment when they create complicated "solutions." Keynesian economists, our legislature...creating problems so they can fix 'em. 

[nate]

Fulfillment on the backs of others*

[nate]

Socialists like him take advantage of hard working and clever people by taking their money and spending it on whatever issue wets their beak.

[arch stanton]

Haven't you guys gotten tired of making the same posts in every thread yet?

[Angelsjunky]

Sometimes I can almost see nate's and Adam's penises touching, oh so gently.

[arch stanton]

I was asking you too

[Angelsjunky]

I know, that's why i liked your post - it was funny. Don't get your panties in a wad because I'm not acting all chastised