Cespedes signs with the Mets

[papawealey]

the same thing.  

 

If some farm players develop value to help the major league club then they are gone or they are getting moved up and someone else is gone.  But only to help the big club.  We won't be trading off anyone for prospects in the off season.  And if by sheer luck we are able to time it up so we can move CJ, Smith, and Escobar at the deadline, the the players in return will either be those that can help the big club the following year or prospects capable of bringing value in trade to bring guys in for the next couple of years.  

 

If we are able to free up enough cash to bring in some FA to help the club in 2017-2020 then that money is as good as spent.   I think we are gonna clear space for Strasburg.  He's a big name and a socal boy.  

 

The thing that will be very telling is how we draft this year.  If we do the college senior thing again, then you know that's coming from up on high.  Closer to the majors so more immediate recognizable value.  Cheaper to scout and sign.  

 

But the point is that it's not about the wins at the end of the season.  It's about the illusion of being able to win the following year.  Getting those 3 million fans.  Is it gonna work forever.  Hell no and that's why I have been so adamant about why that philosophy sucks.  Worrying about 'the guy' that you'd go over the tax for is the perfect example.  That 'guy' was out there this year in most people eyes.  It was whoever it was that would help the team win.  But that 'guy' to Arte is the one that puts butts in the seats.  We want it to be about the team and it's not.  It's about the player.  

Yep. Needs to be said over and over. The primary goal is filling the seats. Whatever it takes. Fill the seats, perpetuate the illusion and worry about next year next year.

[AngelsLakersFan]

 

5.  What is he pulling off the scrap heap?  A more important factor for any gms than people realize.  He's made it clear that it's something he thinks he's good at.  We shall see.  

 

I bet he talked real big about this in his job interview with Moreno, and Arte just ate it up. "YOU'RE HIRED!!"

[AngelsLakersFan]

We had no shot at Cespedes because he wanted to be a Met. We would have been used for leverage. The same could be said with Heyward with the Cubs. Upton maybe not...

 

You're right, no one wants to play here. I wonder why...

[Jobu]

The one think I like about Billy is the sly emphasis on the pool of minor league free agents.

Sly? He hasn't shut up about it since he got here.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Sure hope we won't be looking back at the Trout years as the era where the Angels brain trust mismanaged the hell out of it and ruined a golden chance with a once in a generational talent....the best talent that this franchise has ever developed. Have through 2020 and 2016 already doesn't look very promising

 

It's already pretty much a lock at this point. 

[Stradling]

The new phase of Trout is leaving starts now.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Drafting poorly is not about directives.  The Angels have drafted poorly.  They missed the window to spend big on international signings when they could have, but I truly believe a stronger GM would have been able to point out why it was important to make that investment -- not unlike what Stoneman did when the DNF picks were being phased out.

 

The Angels have spent very little in the draft. I have got the feeling that their focus has moved towards signability rather than projectability.

[Stradling]

Well their last two first rounders have started out pretty good.

[Jimmag]

Here are your 2016 Los Angeles Average Angels

[Ohtaniland]

We're paying for it and so are the rest of the players on the team including the best player in baseball.

I keep getting the sense from you that you think Arte has learned from his previous mistakes. He didn't profess to allocating resources to player development and scouting from this point forward. He's basically said that he's just not gonna spend. Not because he doesn't think it's a good idea but because he just doesn't want to shell out the cash. If he had it, he'd spend it.

Trading prospects and club controlled players is an expense to the team. Maybe not this year or the next, but eventually.

If he had learned, he'd be encouraging the front office to preserve the farm talent. In fact, it's been quite the opposite.

When I say that Arte learned his lesson I'm saying that he's already gone "all in" and he's now tapped out. He will revisit the free agent market like he always did in the past when some of his larger contracts expire. As for the minor leagues, draft and foreign market....that's his baseball people's responsibility to work on. Draft picks are lost when we sign the Pujols' and the Hamilton's. The fans embraced the signings but now the repercussions have kicked in. No money and no draft picks. So now we are mad at Arte for not digging deeper. That's really unfair to him. The current team is still better than 2/3 of the league.

[Stradling]

When I say that Arte learned his lesson I'm saying that he's already gone "all in" and he's now tapped out. He will revisit the free agent market like he always did in the past when some of his larger contracts expire. As for the minor leagues, draft and foreign market....that's his baseball people's responsibility to work on. Draft picks are lost when we sign the Pujols' and the Hamilton's. The fans embraced the signings but now the repercussions have kicked in. No money and no draft picks. So now we are mad at Arte for not digging deeper. That's really unfair to him. The current team is still better than 2/3 of the league.

Using your previous logic, not your new logic, they should be better than 2/3's of the league with that payroll. It's Arte responsibility to give the team a large enough budget for player development, scouting and international scouting, yet he doesn't.

[yk9001]

Okay, see you guys in a couple years.

 

A modified self-ban for me. I'll check in now and then, but my days as a fan of this team are coming to a close. It's just too stressful at this point.

 

The postseason in 2002 was nice. I'll watch my tapes of those games and enjoy that at least. It's still a thrill to see David Wells walk off the mound after getting hammered in that 5th inning of Game 4 in the division series. There were the other thrills, against Minnesota and the Giants. There was also the 2009 sweep of Boston. But that's been about it.

I cannot believe people give up on a team in January.

[Jobu]

I cannot believe people give up on a team in January.

I can't believe he still has a VCR.

[Homebrewer]

I've been a fan since day 1, and the vast majority of those seasons, the Angels have been either really good, or pretty bad.

I've been a Cub fan for the same amount of time, and the vast majority of those years have been spent hoping for a team that could play .500 baseball. 

 

This Angels franchise looks like it is going to be one of those "Hope for .500" clubs for a while...That's not "bad" by any means, but it isn't as much fun as being invested in every game. Even if a team fails to produce, the belief that they should win every game is what, to me, makes watching them day after day.. compelling. This isn't shaping up to be a team that looks to have a shot at winning every time they take the field.

[Stradling]

I'll stick with the team thick and thin. I'll be here everyday whether we are good or if we are struggling. I will watch 150+ games a year. I gave up my season seats but I'll still go to 20 games this year and I won't miss a playoff game. All that being said, I'm not happy with Arte showing no real direction other than don't spend big money. I'm a very patient person and as a fan I usually very much on the side of optimism.

[Troll Daddy]

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

----- Troll Daddy

Edited January 23, 2016 by Troll Daddy

[wopphil]

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

----- Troll Daddy

I don't mind that they didn't make a big signing. I am just pissed they haven't done a damn thing to fix their biggest (and most fixable) hole. They can fix left field without making a huge financial commitment to a questionable player.

[Blarg]

Oh my God, fan seriously self banned because Cespedes chose to go back to the Mets for less years and money? WTF is wrong with your thinking?

Wait, never mind. If any of you sackless Clowns feel the Angels won't be competitive please self ban rather than spend another season voicing your self loathing and angst.

[Angel Oracle]

Dipoto let Darren O'Day walk.

That bummed me out the most.

If Grichuk turns into a stud OF, that will be as bad if not more.

Reagins left O'Day unprotected after 2008.

[Docwaukee]

When I say that Arte learned his lesson I'm saying that he's already gone "all in" and he's now tapped out. He will revisit the free agent market like he always did in the past when some of his larger contracts expire. As for the minor leagues, draft and foreign market....that's his baseball people's responsibility to work on. Draft picks are lost when we sign the Pujols' and the Hamilton's. The fans embraced the signings but now the repercussions have kicked in. No money and no draft picks. So now we are mad at Arte for not digging deeper. That's really unfair to him. The current team is still better than 2/3 of the league.

 

So you agree he hasn't learned squat.  I think you are still working from the vantage that Arte's primary concern is whether the team wins.  

 

His baseball people can only do so much with the resources available to them.  If they have league low scouting and development budgets and no money for signing foreign players.   On the operations side he's gone bare bones.  

 

Here is a deaspin article that has financial info from the Angels, Pirates, Marlins, and Rays.

http://deadspin.com/5615096/mlb-confidential-the-financial-documents-baseball-doesnt-want-you-to-see-part-1

 

Take a look at the scouting and development as well as minor league operations budgets for the halos vs. those other small market clubs.  They all dwarf us and this was financial info from 2008 and 2009.  

 

Can't you see what Arte is doing?  He's not going 'all in' as you say.  He's just reallocated as much of his budget as possible into the major league payroll.  Other teams with much lower payrolls spend similar if not more money as an entire organization.  It's a shell game dude.  We see what he wants us to see.  'Look at how much I'm spending on the players just for you and your 3 million friends'.  

 

But it's driving the org into the ground and skimping on all the things people don't see will eventually catch up to him.  As it's doing this year where he's run out of assets.  But if you notice from these financials (which btw, I am not an expert at interpreting) there was a partner capital distribution of 20 million and who knows where other salaries are hidden in the 'general administrative and other' category or anywhere else I am just not savvy enough to figure out.  

 

Also, the org was profitable in 2008 and 2009, there were increases in partner capital and the currrent large TV contract hadn't even kicked in yet.  We've seen a small bump in major league payroll since the $100,000,000 per year TV deal and I am sure portions of that get distributed to major league baseball, but where is the rest of it going?  

 

You are preaching fiscal responsibility and that Arte should be lauded.  That we are spoiled and that our treatment of Arte is unfair.  

 

We are no more spoiled than any other large market team.  we have the sixth highest payroll yes, but we have the 5th highest revenue stream (over 300 mil per year).  

 

You are being fooled by the lack of financial transparency in baseball as a whole.  It's exactly what Arte is using to his advantage to give people the impression that he is doing everything he can to help the major league team.  A mostly true statement.  

 

It would be more accurate if he said 'We are doing everything we are willing to in order to help the major league team'.  

[Inside Pitch]

The Angels have spent very little in the draft. I have got the feeling that their focus has moved towards signability rather than projectability.

 

They have spent what they were allotted to spend.   The rules changes means teams are locked into slot monies.  Again, a situation that should have been exploited while it could be.

[Docwaukee]

I also want to make clear that my criticism of how resources are allocated in this org doesn't mean that I am any less excited to watch Angels baseball.  Sure I would have liked certain things to happen that didn't, but I do like this team for 2016 and think they could make the playoffs even if things don't go perfectly.  

 

In other words, I am fairly bullish on the current club.  Probably more so than others.  I am just bearish on the long term outlook.  

[Inside Pitch]

I also want to make clear that my criticism of how resources are allocated in this org doesn't mean that I am any less excited to watch Angels baseball.  Sure I would have liked certain things to happen that didn't, but I do like this team for 2016 and think they could make the playoffs even if things don't go perfectly.  

 

In other words, I am fairly bullish on the current club.  Probably more so than others.  I am just bearish on the long term outlook.  

 

Not gonna lie -- this is the lowest Ive been on our farm in a long time.  There are guys I really like like Abbott and some of the arms -- but it's just so incredibly weak right now that a big part of what I enjoy following looks to be painful.  At the same time, this is likely the most excited I've been for a draft in a long time.   Ward, Baldoquin -- gotta hope they both come out of the gate strong.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[Homebrewer]

Welcome to Anaheim, Rymer Liriano.

[Troll Daddy]

I don't mind that they didn't make a big signing. I am just pissed they haven't done a damn thing to fix their biggest (and most fixable) hole. They can fix left field without making a huge financial commitment to a questionable player.

The quote was actually from Albert Einstein.

I agree with you.