Upton to sign with Tigers for 6yr/$132.75 million

[Guest]

So, in order to be the best ever he needs that kind of longevity? I don't really agree but if that's your grading scale I won't argue with it. So in your grading scale is Kobe better than Michael? Nolan better than Koufax? I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to fully understand your opinion.

Stradling, as I've alluded to many times, I do not base a player's skillset using one single metric. My original comment about Simmons being good at defense (the original post you quoted) was sarcastic and intended to mock the Angels' FO––not Simmons, the player. I've failed to properly express myself, obviously. 

 

Also, I am a very argumenative person; when I "argue" I try to discredit the argument by finding the flaws/fallacies in your claims. It's not necessarily indicative of what I personally believe or feel. I wasn't trying to be smarmy like Inside Pitch said, nor was I trying to discredit dWAR––I simply repeated what you said (how it can be discredited), and attacked your methods of reasoning.

[Guest]

Ok, since you're being so smarmy -- please, tell us how it can be discredited and why it's problematic..  Make us understand, I wanna be on your level of knowledge.    While you're at it -- go ahead and discredit his 113 DRS in those four years. 

 

You used fielding percentage -- possibly the single most useless fielding stat of all time because all it measures is sure-handedness.   A guy ranges 20 yards to his left dives and has a ball go off the top of his glove and it can be ruled an error.... he's dinged.  Meanwhile a guy goes Grant Green, takes three steps and gives up -- FLD% is safe.  "Damn, that guy a great fielder, look at that sterling FLD%, tell me about the rabbits, George".   Then you used GGs...  Because those are a scientific measure of defensive awesomeness aren't they????   Gold gloves are a subjective measure that doesn't actually include any metrics at all - instead it relies on the opinions of people.   Rafael Palmiero once won a GG in a season he DHed.  If you wan't, I can list all the other defensive metrics that lead to the same conclusion because it's pretty clear that when you have that many metrics all leading to the same place -- they must all be wrong.  I mean -- dude didn't even win a GG this year.

 

Of all the unintentionally hilarious things you've said, your last line takes the cake -- you say he's not the be all end all of defensive metrics but if you actually look at those numbers.... he is.   Mostly because they are new metrics and older players can't really be properly compared.   The real question is whether those defensive metrics deserve to be taken at face value -- but, I'm sure' you're going to make us all understand that now..  right?

 

It's okay to hate the trade, it's silly to think GGs and FLD% are better measures than dWAR or any of the defensive metrics out there..

I said dWAR is not the be all end all of defensive metrics because I don't believe in using one single metric to judge a player. How does that translate to me discrediting dWAR completely? Cool your jets and try not to get too emotional. 

 

Also, I suggest you learn what 'smarmy' means before you use it. I am being douchey not smarmy. If I were being smarmy then I would be agreeing with everyone here rather than disagreeing. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by failos

[ettin]

That's 3 million that he could have used for yacht fuel.

 

It's economics, AO.

 

 

Something something economics, yacht

 

 

Damn you

 

Don't worry the multiple jokes are okay we can just merge them into the same thread. Just lump them in the same boat.

[ettin]

Until 2-3 years ago, Arte was the kid wanting new shiny toys and not caring how long they lasted.

Now he is the parent not wanting any new shiny toys even if they have a likelihood of a long shelf life. 

 

This is another thing that astounds me: You invest in what you believe are two prime pieces in Pujols and Trout and then you, seemingly, walk away right when you can add the piece de resistance? More importantly between Trout, Pujols, and Hamilton Moreno spent over 500 million dollars in contract value and he can't bring himself to incur a Luxury Tax that would have only been about $7MM give or take? REALLY? It's like buying a beautiful beach side home and then not spending the money to remodel, buy furniture, and put on the finishing touches.

 

Our only real hope at this point is Cespedes and he was not my 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd choice. Honestly I was so blown away by the inaction of Moreno that it really caved in the remainder of my Primer Series. I got so bummed out I literally lost all desire to put the finishing touches on the remainder of the Primer. I have pages of written material laying out a thoughtful logic on how the offseason should have gone and I just can't bring myself back to finish it (and essentially add in explanations of why my logic failed = Moreno).

 

Not only has Arte meddled far too much with the team he seems VERY rigid in his ability to respond to market changes (opt outs for instance) and seemingly wants these long-term handshake commitments that are not what the current market is providing. Sorry I've gone off on a small rant. /endrant

Edited January 20, 2016 by ettin

[Ohtaniland]

The NAVA HO'S in the left field stands are getting excited.

[Angel Oracle]

Boats and Ho's!

[AngelsLakersFan]

This is another thing that astounds me: You invest in what you believe are two prime pieces in Pujols and Trout and then you, seemingly, walk away right when you can add the piece de resistance? More importantly between Trout, Pujols, and Hamilton Moreno spent over 500 million dollars in contract value and he can't bring himself to incur a Luxury Tax that would have only been about $7MM give or take? REALLY? It's like buying a beautiful beach side home and then not spending the money to remodel, buy furniture, and put on the finishing touches.

 

Our only real hope at this point is Cespedes and he was not my 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd choice. Honestly I was so blown away by the inaction of Moreno that it really caved in the remainder of my Primer Series. I got so bummed out I literally lost all desire to put the finishing touches on the remainder of the Primer. I have pages of written material laying out a thoughtful logic on how the offseason should have gone and I just can't bring myself back to finish it (and essentially add in explanations of why my logic failed = Moreno).

 

Not only has Arte meddled far too much with the team he seems VERY rigid in his ability to respond to market changes (opt outs for instance) and seemingly wants these long-term handshake commitments that are not what the current market is providing. Sorry I've gone off on a small rant. /endrant

 

Your arguments and suggestions were sound. The problem is that Moreno is looking at the situation from an entirely different frame of reference.

[tomsred]

Arte is looking at $180+M in AAV, and probably something well over $200M in actual cash outflow for the current year salary load.  Seeing how that's the most he ever had to pay in one year for player salaries, it probably does look pretty ugly to him.

[Lou]

Until 2-3 years ago, Arte was the kid wanting new shiny toys and not caring how long they lasted.

Now he is the parent not wanting any new shiny toys even if they have a likelihood of a long shelf life.

And you (and others) have complained about both of them.

He can't win with you guys no matter what he does.

[Ohtaniland]

And you (and others) have complained about both of them.

He can't win with you guys no matter what he does.

Well actually his new toys didn't win either.

[Docwaukee]

And you (and others) have complained about both of them.

He can't win with you guys no matter what he does.

Arte was never that kid.  He bought the shiny shit, marked it up and sold it for a profit.  He'd sell us more shiny shit if there was any, but his margins on the current supply are slim and he's still got the shiniest toy of all.  He found it in his basement and he making huge profits from it.  Why would he want to buy stuff that has much smaller margins?  

[Angel Oracle]

And you (and others) have complained about both of them.

He can't win with you guys no matter what he does.

Not when the long term FA signings were smart and not reactionary, like Vlad, Colon, and Hunter.

Signing a 32 year-old with 11 seasons already under his belt for 10 years is not smart.

Signing a 31/32 year-old with past abuse issues and a slumping 2012 season for 5 years is not smart.

Trading for Wells and the $86 million still owed him for 4 seasons, when he was mediocre on the road, is not smart.

At least he's stopped with those.

Just don't ignore the smart ones from now on to overcompensate.

[Inside Pitch]

I said dWAR is not the be all end all of defensive metrics because I don't believe in using one single metric to judge a player. How does that translate to me discrediting dWAR completely? Cool your jets and try not to get too emotional. 

 

Also, I suggest you learn what 'smarmy' means before you use it. I am being douchey not smarmy. If I were being smarmy then I would be agreeing with everyone here rather than disagreeing. 

 

You are as capable of teaching me English as you are how to properly use defensive metrics.  Smarmy can be used to mean both SMUG, and/or ingratiating.   http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smarmy.. http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/smarmy  I agree it would have been better to call you douchey but I figured I'd avoid being overtly inflammatory.... it's also why I avoided calling you stupid despite it being just as obvious.

 

Anyway, calling you out for trying to downplay dWar as you spouted off about FLD% and GG isn't emotion -- it's calling you out on not being able to see the forest for the trees.   

 

So you gonna tell us about dWar now?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[beatlesrule]

I think it was a beautiful lie.