Upton to sign with Tigers for 6yr/$132.75 million

[Lou]

What evidence is there that AL pitching is better than NL pitching? I hear this argument all the time against signing NL hitters but have never seem the data to suggest it's a big deal (not saying it doesn't exist, please point me to it).

Intuitively, it makes sense to be wary of NL starting pitchers, because they face NL SP batters, but I don't understand why NL hitters would struggle in the AL other than the time it takes to adjust to pitchers that they aren't familiar with.

it was merely a response to AO questioning whether Ethier could hit AL pitching?

you might want to ask him the question

Edited January 19, 2016 by Lou

[Docwaukee]

I really think there is more to Simmons bat than we have seen.  He's got some pop and makes good contact. I really think he could hit about .280 with 10-15hrs and 40-50 walks.  

 

It might not happen next year or even the year after, but I think he's gonna have some very good years with the bat at his peak.  He's too good of an athlete not to.  

[Lou]

The only proof you're using is dWAR, yet you admit how it can be discredited. Do you understand how problematic that is for your argument?

Omar Vizquel has the best fielding percentage for a shortstop ever, and he won 11 Gold Gloves in a career spanning over 20 years. Simmons has been an MLB player for 4 years. How are you not aware of your hyperbole? You said he's better than Ozzie Smith.

At this rate, I think you're going to be very disappointed in Simmons because you've set your expectations far too high. He's a great player, one of the best defensively, but dWAR is not the be-all end-all of defensive metrics.

in all fairness, you've only offered fielding % (and longevity ) as proof that Vizquel is better. That sounds like the argument Jeter fans make to support his greatness.

TZR - Vizquel = 135 (24 yrs) Simmons = 73 (4 yrs)

RF - Vizquel = 4.61 Simmons = 4.72

and Simmons' arm is light years better than Omar's

Edited January 19, 2016 by Lou

[Lou]

" Omar Vizquel has the best fielding percentage for a shortstop ever, and he won 11 Gold Gloves in a career spanning over 20 years. Simmons has been an MLB player for 4 years."

Vizguel's Fld% = .984

Simmons' = .983 ( and went up to .988 from .978 in '14)

[Revad]

From MLBTR on the Upton signing:

"His signing and the presence of Martinez on the other corner have effectively blocked prospects Tyler Collins and Steven Moya for the foreseeable future." CJ and cash for one of these guys? Anyone know anything about them?

[Rico]

This place will go crazy when Cespedes signs with the Rangers.

[Blarg]

From MLBTR on the Upton signing:

"His signing and the presence of Martinez on the other corner have effectively blocked prospects Tyler Collins and Steven Moya for the foreseeable future." CJ and cash for one of these guys? Anyone know anything about them?

 

Why would you propose a trade for talent you know nothing about? How about starting with what is it you are trading for then pick player value that match up.

[Glen]

Why the **** would anybody trade for CJ Wilson? Coming off of surgery, one year left on his contract at a high rate. Not to mention that CJ can block most trades.

He isn't going to be traded.

[Inside Pitch]

The only proof you're using is dWAR, yet you admit how it can be discredited. Do you understand how problematic that is for your argument?

Omar Vizquel has the best fielding percentage for a shortstop ever, and he won 11 Gold Gloves in a career spanning over 20 years. Simmons has been an MLB player for 4 years. How are you not aware of your hyperbole? You said he's better than Ozzie Smith.

At this rate, I think you're going to be very disappointed in Simmons because you've set your expectations far too high. He's a great player, one of the best defensively, but dWAR is not the be-all end-all of defensive metrics.

 

Ok, since you're being so smarmy -- please, tell us how it can be discredited and why it's problematic..  Make us understand, I wanna be on your level of knowledge.    While you're at it -- go ahead and discredit his 113 DRS in those four years. 

 

You used fielding percentage -- possibly the single most useless fielding stat of all time because all it measures is sure-handedness.   A guy ranges 20 yards to his left dives and has a ball go off the top of his glove and it can be ruled an error.... he's dinged.  Meanwhile a guy goes Grant Green, takes three steps and gives up -- FLD% is safe.  "Damn, that guy a great fielder, look at that sterling FLD%, tell me about the rabbits, George".   Then you used GGs...  Because those are a scientific measure of defensive awesomeness aren't they????   Gold gloves are a subjective measure that doesn't actually include any metrics at all - instead it relies on the opinions of people.   Rafael Palmiero once won a GG in a season he DHed.  If you wan't, I can list all the other defensive metrics that lead to the same conclusion because it's pretty clear that when you have that many metrics all leading to the same place -- they must all be wrong.  I mean -- dude didn't even win a GG this year.

 

Of all the unintentionally hilarious things you've said, your last line takes the cake -- you say he's not the be all end all of defensive metrics but if you actually look at those numbers.... he is.   Mostly because they are new metrics and older players can't really be properly compared.   The real question is whether those defensive metrics deserve to be taken at face value -- but, I'm sure' you're going to make us all understand that now..  right?

 

It's okay to hate the trade, it's silly to think GGs and FLD% are better measures than dWAR or any of the defensive metrics out there..

Edited January 19, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[Angel Oracle]

Why is Moreno so reluctant to go over the threshold by say $8-10 million even for just one year, and only having to pay about $1 million tax once?

That's chicken feed for him.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Angel Oracle

[tdawg87]

Why is Moreno so reluctant to go over the threshold by a few million even for one year, and only having to pay about $3 million tax once?

That's chicken feed for him.

 

That's 3 million that he could have used for yacht fuel.

 

It's economics, AO.

[Stradling]

Why is Moreno so reluctant to go over the threshold by a few million even for one year, and only having to pay about $3 million tax once?

That's chicken feed for him.

Something something economics, yacht

[Stradling]

That's 3 million that he could have used for yacht fuel.

It's economics, AO.

Damn you

[Stradling]

I may just be projecting here, but with this roster, if the team doesn't get out of the gate fast, I kinda think their run of 3 million fans might be over. No big deal they will still do 2.8 million or something like that.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Stradling

[m0nkey]

Might as well bring back Joyce.

 

Looking forward to cheap tickets though

[tdawg87]

Cespedes will sign elsewhere with the Angels not making an offer. 2 weeks later, Arte will wish he had signed Cespedes and force Eppler into a panic move trading Heaney, Tropeano, and Bedrosian for CarGo.

 

Scotty has a legit heart attack and the rest of the fanbase facepalms itself into oblivion.

[YouthofToday]

From Arte himself

Moreno said the Angels are about $4 million under the $189 million threshold for paying the luxury tax. It’s a line he’s been reluctant to cross.

Although Moreno insisted repeatedly, and he did again Wednesday, that he would go over the line for “the right guy,” he apparently doesn’t feel that guy is out there.

“At the end of the day,” he said, “it really gets down to economics.”

"It's not my money"

[Stradling]

It's still not our money

[floplag]

i have to admit i wasnt high on Upton as our option, but now that hes gone Cespedes price went way up and leverage went way down meaning we are likely even more out than we already were. 
At this point by doing nothing in a year where there were ample options to fill LF we have basically doomed ourselves for 2 years with the crop of OF FA next season not just one. 
Color me not happy at all

[AngelsLakersFan]

No way would signing Upton to this deal makes sense for the Angels. The opt out seems totally unnecessary. Upton takes all the positive upside and the Tigers are left with the collapse downside risk.

An analogy would be Upton = Citibank, AIG, other financial douches prior to 2008. Illick = US taxpayers

 

I sort of agree, but $22 million isn't a bad deal for Upton at all. His first two years project to have some significant surplus value in them. Even if he gets hurt and doesn't opt out he could still end up worth the contract if his other seasons are solid.

[floplag]

oh and i call BS on the "right guy" comment... with what was available this off season there is ZERO chance that he can hide behind that and say the guy want out there... zero. 
Unless by right guy hes means superstar for pedestrian money which will never be out there. 
He wasnt going over that line for anybody, thats painfully obvious 

[fan_since79]

Not giving up yet but I'm beginning to feel this is going to be a long, boring season.

 

I'm holding out hope that we get to the World Series again before I'm 90. That shouldn't be too hard to do, right?

 

Those are my expectations at this point for this team.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I may just be projecting here, but with this roster, if the team doesn't get out of the gate fast, I kinda think their run of 3 million fans might be over. No big deal they will still do 2.8 million or something like that.

 

I felt like we were struggling to hit the mark last year as it is.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Unless by right guy hes means superstar for pedestrian money which will never be out there. 

 

 

I think that is exactly what he means.

 

Then again, it doesn't appear that we even low balled any offers to these guys.

[tdawg87]

Arte is saving up all his money so he can offer Harper a 5 year/90 million dollar deal in 2018. It's just smart business.