Upton to sign with Tigers for 6yr/$132.75 million

[YouthofToday]

No way would signing Upton to this deal makes sense for the Angels. The opt out seems totally unnecessary. Upton takes all the positive upside and the Tigers are left with the collapse downside risk.

An analogy would be Upton = Citibank, AIG, other financial douches prior to 2008. Illick = US taxpayers

[Lou]

I don't think he was saying he wasn't worth that, just saying that it would need to be a straight up swap of contracts between the Angels and Dodgers for Ethier and CJ Wilson. Don't see it happening at all with the Dodgers recently going out and signing 2 pitchers(Kazmir and Maeda)

 

 

Only way this team adds a bat is by trading Wilson for a hitter and having the money swap match. That would allow them to fix a hole on offense while staying under the threshold

That makes much more sense. Perhaps you should write his posts for him from now on.

My initial post regarding Ethier was in response to the notion that we would be stuck with a crappy player if we acquired him.

[Guest]

Was it an overpay, sure, but you are absolutely underestimating how good he is. He's Been Aybar with the bat in the last few years and the best short stop we've seen since Ozzie. He's every bit Ozzie's equal if not better defensively.

I think he's a fantastic player, and I would have loved a team built around strong defense and OBP. Now, I don't think he's the best shortstop we've seen since Ozzie––that is such an absurd claim. 

[Stradling]

I think he's a fantastic player, and I would have loved a team built around strong defense and OBP. Now, I don't think he's the best shortstop we've seen since Ozzie––that is such an absurd claim.

Defensively he's absolutely the best since, maybe even better.

[Lou]

Where exactly do we stand in in relation to the luxury tax?

Where's Hubs?!!

[Lou]

I think he's a fantastic player, and I would have loved a team built around strong defense and OBP. Now, I don't think he's the best shortstop we've seen since Ozzie––that is such an absurd claim.

Who's been better?

[Pujols4MVP]

Ilitch is like 180 years old. Dude wants to win a WS badly before he dies so they're gonna keep spending like crazy.

 

Does this mean when Arte is 180 he'll be spending like Crazy ?

[Second Base]

The Angels have to sign Cespedes, it's a very good fit, always has been.

But yeah, chances are he'll go to a team that doesn't really need him and we'll trade one of our young SP for Blackmon, who will be replaced by a replacement level 4th OF midway through next year.

I wonder what it'll actually cost for Gardner... Probably Santiago, Tropeano and a RP.

[ettin]

Avg OPS+ since 2012:

Ethier- 119

Upton -122

2015:

Ethier- .852

Upton : .790

 

Careful Lou Ethier's at-bats were nearly exclusively against RHP. His LH splits are abysmal.

 

[Biergott]

down to one option....and I would love to see him throwing people out at home from the left field corner. I really hope Arte opens the wallet and allows Eppler to sign Cespedes, then this offseason will make a bit more sense

[Pujols4MVP]

The only thing I don't like about Cespedes is his OBP sucks on his career numbers & will only decline with age.

He's had 2 seasons with a OBP below .302

 

Is the 2012 & 2015 the real Cespedes or the 2013 & 2014 version ?

[Guest]

Who's been better?

Omar Vizquel for starters. 

[Stradling]

Visquel had a 28 DWAR in 23 seasons

Simmons has a 15 DWAR in 4 seasons.

Now you can go ahead and discredit DWAR, but no amount of discrediting will make your statement of Visquel being better true.

[ABC]

lol on so many levels. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I don't want us overspending next year either.

 

Unfortunately that is probably when it will happen, because we will be under the cap. The players will suck, and that will be justification to stay out of the free agent market going forward. There were impact players available at positions of need, and that is the frustrating part.

[Guest]

Visquel had a 28 DWAR in 23 seasons

Simmons has a 15 DWAR in 4 seasons.

Now you can go ahead and discredit DWAR, but no amount of discrediting will make your statement of Visquel being better true.

The only proof you're using is dWAR, yet you admit how it can be discredited. Do you understand how problematic that is for your argument?

Omar Vizquel has the best fielding percentage for a shortstop ever, and he won 11 Gold Gloves in a career spanning over 20 years. Simmons has been an MLB player for 4 years. How are you not aware of your hyperbole? You said he's better than Ozzie Smith.

At this rate, I think you're going to be very disappointed in Simmons because you've set your expectations far too high. He's a great player, one of the best defensively, but dWAR is not the be-all end-all of defensive metrics.

Edited January 19, 2016 by failos

[ettin]

honestly, it seems that most teams have GM's that really buy at least somewhat into SABR

 

outfield defense is being marginalized more and more

 

If anything defense is being emphasized more. Not sure where you are getting that from. Teams are using sabermetrics, video analysis (statcast), and scouting to understand defense far more intimately than they ever have before.

[101halo]

Can Upton hit AL pitching?

We've run Cron, Trumbo and a bevy of carcasses out to LF recently. Ethier would look like Joe Rudi out there

What evidence is there that AL pitching is better than NL pitching? I hear this argument all the time against signing NL hitters but have never seem the data to suggest it's a big deal (not saying it doesn't exist, please point me to it).

Intuitively, it makes sense to be wary of NL starting pitchers, because they face NL SP batters, but I don't understand why NL hitters would struggle in the AL other than the time it takes to adjust to pitchers that they aren't familiar with.

[Stradling]

The only proof you're using is dWAR, yet you admit how it can be discredited. Do you understand how problematic that is for your argument?

Omar Vizquel has the best fielding percentage for a shortstop ever, and he won 11 Gold Gloves in a career spanning over 20 years.

Simmons has been an MLB player for 4 years. How are you not aware of your hyperbole? You said he's better than Ozzie Smith.

At this rate, I think you're going to be very disappointed in Simmons because you've set your expectations far too high.

He's a great player, one of the best defensively, but dWAR is not the be-all end-all of defensive metrics.

So you admit he's more than a"good defensive short stop". I'm not just using that metric I'm using my eyes as well. I've been watching the game for 35 years and he's one of the very best I've seen. Calling him a good defensive short stop is like calling Mike Trout a good baseball player.

[Docwaukee]

Omar Vizquel for starters. 

I don't think so failos.  

 

Just like Trout is a generational talent as a complete player, Simmons is a generational talent on defense.  

 

I think simmons arm and range are both better.  Vizquel's reliability was crazy, but Simmons isn't far behind.  

 

Granted, Simmons has a long way to go, but to be in the same category and potentially even better than either of those guys is saying something.  

 

Neither vizquel or ozzie were much with the bat, but hung around long enough to accumulate some numbers.  I know this is odd to see, but if simmons stays on his current path, he's a hall of famer. 

[bloodbrother]

Where exactly do we stand in in relation to the luxury tax?

Where's Hubs?!!

 

From Arte himself

 

Moreno said the Angels are about $4 million under the $189 million threshold for paying the luxury tax. It’s a line he’s been reluctant to cross.

 

Although Moreno insisted repeatedly, and he did again Wednesday, that he would go over the line for “the right guy,” he apparently doesn’t feel that guy is out there.

 

“At the end of the day,” he said, “it really gets down to economics.”

[QuinlansMinion]

We were only ever going to get Cespedes anyways.  Theres no way the Angels were going to pay Upton that much money.  If by some miracle Cespedes wants to play for the Angels it would be possible to get him.  I think Arte would offer 5 yrs 80 million but he would get outbid by another team.  

[Guest]

I don't think so failos.  

 

Just like Trout is a generational talent as a complete player, Simmons is a generational talent on defense.  

 

I think simmons arm and range are both better.  Vizquel's reliability was crazy, but Simmons isn't far behind.  

 

Granted, Simmons has a long way to go, but to be in the same category and potentially even better than either of those guys is saying something.  

 

Neither vizquel or ozzie were much with the bat, but hung around long enough to accumulate some numbers.  I know this is odd to see, but if simmons stays on his current path, he's a hall of famer. 

I mostly agree with you, Doc. I see Simmons' potential, too, and I do think he's the best defensive SS today (happy, Stradling?   ). At this rate, he can become one of the greatest ever––but can he surpass Vizquel's durability, longevity, and consistency? I actually think Simmons has a shot, but it's tough: Vizquel won a Gold Glove when he was 39 years old, which is almost impossible for the position. 

 

Either way, there's a lot to be excited for. 

[Stradling]

I mostly agree with you, Doc. I see Simmons' potential, too, and I do think he's the best defensive SS today (happy, Stradling? ). At this rate, he can become one of the greatest ever––but can he surpass Vizquel's durability, longevity, and consistency? I actually think Simmons has a shot, but it's tough: Vizquel won a Gold Glove when he was 39 years old, which is almost impossible for the position.

Either way, there's a lot to be excited for.

So, in order to be the best ever he needs that kind of longevity? I don't really agree but if that's your grading scale I won't argue with it. So in your grading scale is Kobe better than Michael? Nolan better than Koufax? I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to fully understand your opinion.

[Lou]

lol on so many levels.

and,as always, you don't provide any information on any of them