Middle Class Losing Ground

[Spirit]

Depending on the store about 15-20% are full time associates. As far as the cooks go you can do it in less time. But yes cooking burgers is the last thing they learn which is one of the reasons for our quality.

 

Are the 15-20% that make up full time associates typically store or district managers?  

[wopphil]

It isn't a matter of what I consider it to be. What it is is a bit over $500K yearly income.

If I ever get anywhere near that point, I'll gladly pay more in taxes. Until then, the government takes more than enough.

[Stradling]

Are the 15-20% that make up full time associates typically store or district managers?

No I wasn't including management.

[Tank]

This is the reason immigration laws aren't enforced to begin with.

 

it's a dilemma. can you imagine the cost of our produce if minimum wage laws were enforced in that area? they'd have to be if immigration laws were enforced, and imagine what that would do to our weekly grocery bills. i also think there would be a huge problem getting americans to take those kinds of jobs.

 

this would apply to all jobs where immigrants are hired below minimum wage.

 

i can tell you, and this is purely anecdotal and a very small sample size, but based on what i've seen at my school from the high schoolers, there are very few of them that want to work, and very few of their parents that want to make them work. the ones i hire as readers need a lot of training and generally lack a huge amount of ambition and initiative. i can't imagine how they'd do at a factory job or at a lot of jobs that require physical labor.

[arch stanton]

it's a dilemma. can you imagine the cost of our produce if minimum wage laws were enforced in that area? they'd have to be if immigration laws were enforced, and imagine what that would do to our weekly grocery bills. i also think there would be a huge problem getting americans to take those kinds of jobs.

 

this would apply to all jobs where immigrants are hired below minimum wage.

 

i can tell you, and this is purely anecdotal and a very small sample size, but based on what i've seen at my school from the high schoolers, there are very few of them that want to work, and very few of their parents that want to make them work. the ones i hire as readers need a lot of training and generally lack a huge amount of ambition and initiative. i can't imagine how they'd do at a factory job or at a lot of jobs that require physical labor.

I don't think it would be too hard to create incentives for both sides that could bring down total compensation by eliminating certain benefits and allowing a decrease in payroll tax to keep the prices in check. They already subsidize the whole industry to begin with so making a few modifications to keep food prices down wouldn't be a stretch. I've been in many countries that import their unskilled labor and since they're not citizens and have little cultural connection nobody gives a crap if you turn them into indentured servants. I guess the same can be said for illegals here in the US.

[ten ocho recon scout]

The thing about flipping burgers is that it isn't a career. It is for high school kids and kids in college that need a part time job.

exactly

On another note, i did recruiting for a bit on the military while i switched jobs and waited for a new school. Recruiting sucks, its one of the hardest sales jobs in the world. But for the life of me i couldnt understand why more people dont do it. Against war, ok, that one i can understand and dont have a problem with. But wars not going anywhere, and the vast, overwhelming majority of people who serve will never see one. But in return youll get paid (very little, but most entry jobs at 18 years old do) to learn a job skill that most people have to pay to learn. On top of it, youll get a paid scholarship when you get out, and a zero money down home loan.

Its not the answer to everything, but far few people recognize what you can get out of it.

I talk to very few people from high school. End up going seperate ways, meet new people, etc. But the few i keep in touch with have all been very successful. One (an immigrant) delivered a current big named celebritie's baby (recently). One (who used to have his arms covered in gang tattoos) is like the number 5 executive guy in the southeast US for a major soda company. Another is a deputy district attorney....all of us grew up in the same neighborhood that still has a gang injunction...all of us remember it being a given that every house party we went to in high school would get turned out by gangsters, all of us know several people who were shot, some fatally.

And all of us started with some shit job like burger flipper. Or gas station. Or foot locker. None of us (weve talked about it) did anything more than what youre told to do (by good parents) as in do well in school, dont get into trouble. I wont go so far as to say anything is easy, or a given. I was lucky my parents stayed on my ass (too many dont have that). But i think its pretty basic. If you stawy in shape, drive a nice car and smell good, theres no guarantee youll get the girl. But it sure as hell helps. Its the same in the job market.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Our "burger flippers" who are the highest paid people before management make $14.25 an hour starting next Monday. It takes a hard worker about two to three years to get there usually.

saw a sign for anew in n out in torrance that said 11 an hour. Is that cashier?

I remember in high school you guys were paying like 8 an hour. At the time min wage was 4. That was pretty neat. I never worked there, i was "too cool" to dress like that. But 2 brothers i know did. One still works for you guys as a painter. Worked his ass off there...would work a full shift as a buger guy, and come in at 4 am as the cleaning crew. But they treated him well and he did good there. Owns a house in corona (nice one), nice truck etc. Never even went to college. The other went to air conditioning school at night. You guys hired him to do that. He too owns a nice house, but unlike the brother has 3 cars (one kid). Im a fan of people who move up in companies. And you guys seem to treat people well

[ten ocho recon scout]

This is the reason immigration laws aren't enforced to begin with.

a big problem with the immigration question that people dont realize is that it is absolutely true immigrants take jobs americans dont want for cheap wages. The problem is those jobs arent endless, and you have a whole slew of other immigrsnts waiting around not doing anything while they wait for those jobs. He problem becomes when they start taking up social programs to survive.

[Tank]

If only we could send everyone to college for free.  That way they can help to develop new and better technologies that will allow us to replace more human employees with machines.  Pretty soon we'll have a massive unemployed society with college degrees. 

 

my brother and i were talking about this saturday night. we both agree that not everyone is cut out for college. maybe it's just the semantics of how politicians say it, but i'd prefer them to say "anyone who wants to go to college should have the opportunity", or something like that instead of "everyone should go to college."

 

or maybe it's just the old man in me that's speaking.

[ten ocho recon scout]

It isn't a matter of what I consider it to be. What it is is a bit over $500K yearly income.

i have to disagree there AJ. While i would "agree" 500K is a ton of money, and not a lot will ever make it, i think the true 1 percent do a lot more than that. I think the real top tier 1 percent makes money none of us can comprehend. And i think the number of people making half a mill to a million a year are more numerous than most realize. The ststs probably get skewed though because there are so many more making far less

[nate]

You are missing the point.  AJ thinks that the 1% have too much and he deserves a piece of the pie even though he did nothing to earn it.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think tank is in a good position to see a big part of the problem (and mentioned it above).

I think if you grew up in a nice area, not even rich just "normal", you assume kids are good, there are bad ones, bad parents, but mostly people do what they are supposed to. But if you see the other areas, where the kids are already kind of lost by the time they hit high school (which is 99 percent of the time the results of their upbringing) you begin to see the massive amount of lazy, unskilled kids we are sending out to the job world.

Tank mentioned above a lot of kids dont want to work. Whenever i try my onterventions with trouble kids, i amost always get the same laughs from them when i suggest dropping an app at the taco bell or the pets mart. The same type of crap jobs i did growing up. or the same excuses when i catch them breaking into homes, about how their parents dont buy them anything....mine didnt really either except for christmas.

Were losing our way, and its a major problem. Its not a coincidence how successful people from korea, for example, usually are when they come here. Their old country values are closer to what we used to be than we are now i think

[Jay]

Also people are counted as "employed" if they work at least one hour per week.

[Spirit]

my brother and i were talking about this saturday night. we both agree that not everyone is cut out for college. maybe it's just the semantics of how politicians say it, but i'd prefer them to say "anyone who wants to go to college should have the opportunity", or something like that instead of "everyone should go to college."

 

or maybe it's just the old man in me that's speaking.

 

 

The problem is they can't say, "anyone who wants to go to college should have the opportunity."  Because that's already the case.  If someone wants to go, there are a bunch of ways they can make that happen.

[ABC]

In my industry, starting wages these days for many attorneys can be quite bad. It is purely the product of an over saturation of attorneys in the market. I am sure the same holds true for workers in many other industries. Maybe the solution is to enforce immigration laws to reduce competition in the labor market and, hopefully, drive up wages more naturally.

 

I recently consulted for a company who hires newer and inexperienced attorneys at $45K. 

[Adam]

Damn

[wopphil]

I recently consulted for a company who hires newer and inexperienced attorneys at $45K.

Not a surprise.

I had coffee with an opponent a few weeks ago. Smart guy, good social skills. Went to Loyola Marymount (a very well respected law school) and did ok there. Making $60k now, but his employer has misclassified him and he is therefore responsible for all payroll tax. And he gets no benefits, and probably pays $1,500 per month in student loans. Plus he has lost four years of career advancement going to law school and taking the bar. Fiancially, he'd be better off, at least at this point, if he had done just about anything else.

Edited December 21, 2015 by wopphil

[Adam]

So...I should probably reconsider law school

[nate]

Yeah... damn.

 

I have been really into these law classes I have been taking too.

[Adam]

I don't have any hard plans to go to law school but it is always in the back of my mind, mainly due to the nature of my job. 

[Spencer]

Mexicans and asians don't have an interest in rocks, ergo my financial future is secure.

[Stradling]

saw a sign for anew in n out in torrance that said 11 an hour. Is that cashier?

I remember in high school you guys were paying like 8 an hour. At the time min wage was 4. That was pretty neat. I never worked there, i was "too cool" to dress like that. But 2 brothers i know did. One still works for you guys as a painter. Worked his ass off there...would work a full shift as a buger guy, and come in at 4 am as the cleaning crew. But they treated him well and he did good there. Owns a house in corona (nice one), nice truck etc. Never even went to college. The other went to air conditioning school at night. You guys hired him to do that. He too owns a nice house, but unlike the brother has 3 cars (one kid). Im a fan of people who move up in companies. And you guys seem to treat people well

Jonathon and Justin?

[ABC]

So...I should probably reconsider law school

 

Depends. My wife got her MBA at Anderson because she's playing the corporate game and it carries a ton of currency. It did little for her in terms of learning business theory and strategy beyond what she already knows and can easily learn on her own. In fact some things they teach is counter-intuitive to making higher profits and building better businesses.

 

The school drooled over her when she went to the sales pitch because she has executive experience and they needed to balance out the room which were comprised of male engineers trying to advance their careers. It was a place to make good contacts. She is constantly getting calls from people she met in the program to run a piece of business at other companies. 

 

Ultimately, it gave her a boost in climbing the corp ladder. 

 

I started the MBA program but left because I was sick of working for someone else and with people who I had no patience for. So I took the time I would've spent in classes and study groups and applied it to my own business. 

 

If the law degree helps you earn more and you want to get it then it might be worthwhile. It all depends on what you're going to do with it. 

[nate]

I think Adam's wife went to UCLA too?

[ABC]

Yeah... damn.

 

I have been really into these law classes I have been taking too.

 

If you want to change careers and become a lawyer then there is still opportunity to make a very high salary. There are many people to model. The reality is that a teacher can earn as much as a high paid lawyer but it requires entrepreneurship skills and action.