Middle Class Losing Ground

[Spirit]

AJ - no more than we would want a "fox news" in a henhouse. 

[Glen]

Right on!  If everyone gets kicked up, I should be making $500,000 a year in no time! 

 

 

I understand that on a macro level there are more people than there are jobs, and that drives down the wages.  That, to me, is the biggest problem we face.  Way more people than there are jobs and we keep losing jobs due to technology and outsourcing, two factors that are almost impossible to navigate.  

[nate]

The thing about flipping burgers is that it isn't a career.  It is for high school kids and kids in college that need a part time job.

[Angelsjunky]

Geoff - Two questions. One, where are we going to find unbiased views and information Two, does the fact that the chart is from Think Progress automatically invalidate it? Numbers can be used in clever ways, but they generally don't lie.

 

Glen - careful, or you'll end up in Trump territory because the cons argue that part of the reason there are more people than jobs is because of immigrants. And it would be hard to deny that there is some truth to this. Not to mention that in just about every instance I've experience or heard of, Mexican immigrants are better, harder workers than non-immigrants.

 

Clearly we need to create more jobs, and not just low paying manual jobs. We also need to improve wages and/or reduce the cost of living. How to do this? Well, I can think of two things. One, re-allocate government funds towards creating jobs to re-build infrastructure. Stop throwing money at military contractors to make trillion-dollar planes that don't work. Two, tax the **** out of the top 1% and big corporations and use the money to...create jobs and re-build infrastructure, improve health care (single payer), and increase the wages of those making below $100K.

 

The money is there, it just isn't trickling down.

[Angelsjunky]

The thing about flipping burgers is that it isn't a career.  It is for high school kids and kids in college that need a part time job.

 

I agree, which is why we need to create better avenues for education and training - like public colleges and, I would add, vocational schools.

[nate]

We have plenty of those.

 

What we need is more hard working people.  No amount of spending will do that.

[Crampknees]

i really like the direction this thread took.

 

for the record, my district is speed dial 9. should work from any phone. thanks, fellas.

Tank, when I call they will say who is Tank?  Then tell them to go in the teachers parking lot and find the guy who tried to cover up the Obama 2012 bumper sticker with a Mountain Dew sticker.

 

Drum roll, yes, no?

[Tank]

kurt, it was then covered up by two kings stanley cup champs stickers.

 

oh, they know me, but they're just trying to hold me down.

[Tank]

The thing about flipping burgers is that it isn't a career.  It is for high school kids and kids in college that need a part time job.

 

this needs to be carved in stone in multiple places.

[Spirit]

If only we could send everyone to college for free.  That way they can help to develop new and better technologies that will allow us to replace more human employees with machines.  Pretty soon we'll have a massive unemployed society with college degrees. 

[Spirit]

AJ - One, reason.com is a solid choice.  Two, yes.

[arch stanton]

Big business has always known that the biggest drag on profit is labor cost. At one point there wasn't a lot they could do about it and life got pretty good for the middle class because they were necessary. In the past 40 years or so, automation and outsourcing to countries that are allowed to have a virtual slave labor force have significantly reduced the necessity for the American labor force and it's going to get much worse before it gets better.

[wopphil]

Here is what nobody on the left has ever adequately explained to me(probably because they have no explanation): if we raise minimum wage to $15, won't that simply drive up the cost of the products/services provided by the minimum wage employees? And won't that, in turn, decrease the spending power of the very people whose wages were just raised?

Someone please help me see what I am missing.

Edited December 20, 2015 by wopphil

[Angelsjunky]

AJ - One, reason.com is a solid choice.  Two, yes.

 

LOL. You're saying a libertarian website is unbiased? Libertarianism is still an ideology, still a bias.

 

You can find similar charts from different sites that say the same thing as the Think Progress one.

[Spirit]

Fair enough.  How about google.com 

[halobob]

Geoff - Two questions. One, where are we going to find unbiased views and information Two, does the fact that the chart is from Think Progress automatically invalidate it? Numbers can be used in clever ways, but they generally don't lie.

 

Glen - careful, or you'll end up in Trump territory because the cons argue that part of the reason there are more people than jobs is because of immigrants. And it would be hard to deny that there is some truth to this. Not to mention that in just about every instance I've experience or heard of, Mexican immigrants are better, harder workers than non-immigrants.

 

Clearly we need to create more jobs, and not just low paying manual jobs. We also need to improve wages and/or reduce the cost of living. How to do this? Well, I can think of two things. One, re-allocate government funds towards creating jobs to re-build infrastructure. Stop throwing money at military contractors to make trillion-dollar planes that don't work. Two, tax the **** out of the top 1% and big corporations and use the money to...create jobs and re-build infrastructure, improve health care (single payer), and increase the wages of those making below $100K.

 

The money is there, it just isn't trickling down.

AJ, what level of income do you consider the top 1%?

[mtangelsfan]

Big business has always known that the biggest drag on profit is labor cost. At one point there wasn't a lot they could do about it and life got pretty good for the middle class because they were necessary. In the past 40 years or so, automation and outsourcing to countries that are allowed to have a virtual slave labor force have significantly reduced the necessity for the American labor force and it's going to get much worse before it gets better.

I agree to a point. One other thing that big business has used to successfully keep wages down is to promote the immigration of cheap labor.

The argument that wages should be increased cannot be made without addressing this issue.

[wopphil]

In my industry, starting wages these days for many attorneys can be quite bad. It is purely the product of an over saturation of attorneys in the market. I am sure the same holds true for workers in many other industries. Maybe the solution is to enforce immigration laws to reduce competition in the labor market and, hopefully, drive up wages more naturally.

[Stradling]

Our "burger flippers" who are the highest paid people before management make $14.25 an hour starting next Monday. It takes a hard worker about two to three years to get there usually.

[Spirit]

It takes someone 2-3 years to get to burger flipper?  Is that where someone heads to after other roles like cashier, fries, drinks, etc?  If so, that's interesting.

 

 

Do you have any kind of feel for what percentage of your employees work their gig as a job vs. a career?  Meaning, those that work it while they're in school vs. this is their primary job in supporting themselves and their families?

[arch stanton]

In my industry, starting wages these days for many attorneys can be quite bad. It is purely the product of an over saturation of attorneys in the market. I am sure the same holds true for workers in many other industries. Maybe the solution is to enforce immigration laws to reduce competition in the labor market and, hopefully, drive up wages more naturally.

This is the reason immigration laws aren't enforced to begin with.

[wopphil]

This is the reason immigration laws aren't enforced to begin with.

Of course. But for all the talk about the growing wage gap, the living wage, etc., you would think someone would suggest the problem can be fixed by enforcing existing immigration laws. Instead, many seemingly want to just increase taxes on the wealthiest (with the false belief that doing so will generate an endless supply of tax dollars) as a supposed means to fixing the problem.

[arch stanton]

Of course. But for all the talk about the growing wage gap, the living wage, etc., you would think someone would suggest the problem can be fixed by enforcing existing immigration laws. Instead, many seemingly want to just increase taxes on the wealthiest (with the false belief that doing so will generate an endless supply of tax dollars) as a supposed means to fixing the problem.

Who's going to suggest it? The companies that benefit or the politicians they own?

[Stradling]

It takes someone 2-3 years to get to burger flipper? Is that where someone heads to after other roles like cashier, fries, drinks, etc? If so, that's interesting.

Do you have any kind of feel for what percentage of your employees work their gig as a job vs. a career? Meaning, those that work it while they're in school vs. this is their primary job in supporting themselves and their families?

Depending on the store about 15-20% are full time associates. As far as the cooks go you can do it in less time. But yes cooking burgers is the last thing they learn which is one of the reasons for our quality.

[Angelsjunky]

AJ, what level of income do you consider the top 1%?

 

It isn't a matter of what I consider it to be. What it is is a bit over $500K yearly income.