Middle Class Losing Ground

[Stradling]

Before I was promoted to my current position I was a store manager and I was making a good living. However my salary was low and most of my pay 60-75% was monthly bonuses. My last year as a store manager I made great money and my first year as a divisional manager I only made about $8k more. My first year as a divisional manager I paid off about $35k in debt. The difference was my salary tripled when I got promoted, so the withholdings were significantly less and the pay more consistent. Oh and then I got divorced.

[Adam]

Before I was promoted to my current position I was a store manager and I was making a good living. However my salary was low and most of my pay 60-75% was monthly bonuses. My last year as a store manager I made great money and my first year as a divisional manager I only made about $8k more. My first year as a divisional manager I paid off about $35k in debt. The difference was my salary tripled when I got promoted, so the withholdings were significantly less and the pay more consistent. Oh and then I got divorced.

 

I'm a little confused. At what point did you get the penile enlargement? Asking for Brandon

[Blarg]

This is now the Fw:Fw:Fw:Fw:Fw:Fw: email rage.

[Stradling]

I'm a little confused. At what point did you get the penile enlargement? Asking for Brandon

You didn't read the last sentence about my divorce?

[ten ocho recon scout]

Good breakdown cat. I agree with some of what is saying. Im new to the political forum so not sure the gistory here and everyones politics, but in terms of where he says we need more good kids, couldnt agree more. Further, the comments about the lack of job skills is spot on.

Education is a huge problem in this country. Too many dont see the true value of it, and we probably dont do a good enough job of hammering it home to young people about how important it is. The other part is laziness. Too many people dont want to put in the work early in life. College is expensive, yes, but its an investment. If colleget isnt your thing, there are multiple trade schools that need workers badly. But again, too many people dont want to put in the work to develop a profession.

I tell young people its like being successful in dating. If you have no personality, dont have your life together, dont stay in shape, etc, your odds of landing the girl are slim. Its no different in the job market. If you cant stand out from the crowd in a job interview, your odds are slim. And your market is far less than of you were "attractive" as an applicant.

[ABC]

Learn to write and sell

 

People complain when they chase low paying careers when all the information about industry trajectories and expected income is available to them. If you want to teach grade school or become a dance instructor you can make great money and there people to model. Same with any other profession.

 

In the end it comes down to sales skills. If you don't want to sell then learn a skill that is in high demand and employers are willing to pay well for it. Don't become a liberal arts major and take any job that'll have you. This country needs STEM educated workers. So much so that we are importing them from countries that take education more seriously.

[Adam]

To piggyback that, I'm not sure that people know what they want or what they value. If making a lot of money is something that is important to you, it should impact your decision making. To your point CF8, I feel like too many people "want" to make $150K/year but don't ever take steps in their life that makes that a realistic target. 

[juansavage1]

I'm thinking out loud and not really arguing so don't get upset. Besides income, there's a growing values gap. Far fewer poor people think they're going to marry than middle and above people. That wasn't the case years ago.

People point out that men marry other elite earning women than they did years ago when doctors would marry nurses and women of wealthy men rarely worked.

Manufacturing loss and some of the other things mentioned may have some validity.

[nate]

I manage a team of 20 professionals, many of which have 10+ people reporting to them.

 

In my 1x1s it is shocking how the ones that don't do anything exceptional, and their effort is less than exceptional, complain about the fact that I have advanced ahead of them when they have been with the company much longer.  They put in the bare minimum and expect to be rewarded for it.  These people are the biggest pain in my ass.

[Adam]

I manage a team of 20 professionals, many of which have 10+ people reporting to them.

 

In my 1x1s it is shocking how the ones that don't do anything exceptional, and their effort is less than exceptional, complain about the fact that I have advanced ahead of them when they have been with the company much longer.  They put in the bare minimum and expect to be rewarded for it.  These people are the biggest pain in my ass.

 

Typical American workplace. I love working for a small business. No one can hide. 

[juansavage1]

Resentment can be an ugly thing. Mass resentment usually leads to evil. 

 

By the way, if you want to know about the values of a certain time, ALWAYS go to contemporary sources. Besides avoiding revisionism, it's usually pretty fun. Read "The Gift of the Magi" and see if that's how most people in a bad neighborhood would act today. 

[Stradling]

In my job there was talk of me being a DM starting around 2004, I got promoted at the end of 2009. There were a couple of years of resentment in there for me where I thought I was the most qualified of the 250 managers out there. It wasn't until I started holding myself more personally accountable for the actions of the people that worked for me and my own actions before I realized it was me all along holding myself back. They would talk to me about my shortcomings, but in my mind I would only focus on what I did well. What it came down to was I was a looking out the window kind of guy as opposed to looking in the mirror (oh and I hate that phrase, but it fit so well right there).

[nate]

I make it a point, not just to work hard and do a good job, but to learn as much about my job as possible, that includes what other areas do, how they do it, and even how it could be improved.  Not only that but complaining does absolutely nothing.  Not only does it make you miserable, but it usually makes the people around you miserable as well.

 

If you work hard enough, most of the time you will be rewarded.  You just have to be patient.

[ABC]

To piggyback that, I'm not sure that people know what they want or what they value. If making a lot of money is something that is important to you, it should impact your decision making. To your point CF8, I feel like too many people "want" to make $150K/year but don't ever take steps in their life that makes that a realistic target. 

 

Absolutely, if you go into teaching high school students you shouldn't be surprised by the pay. IMO, teachers aren't necessarily underpaid. It's a pretty cush job without a lot of stress of deadlines, problem solving, meeting of goals, etc. Plus you get massive amounts of vaca. If making $300K is important to you and you want to make it while teaching, there are ways to do it but not in the traditional teaching career path.

 

Some teachers believe that they should make more based on seniority, education, etc. That may be true in some cases but it doesn't men that getting a PHD in Literature and whatever teaching degree should catapult you into a new financial stratosphere. Schools sell the idea that if you get X degree then you will get X financial rewards. The reality is that it is only the cost of entry into the profession. You then have to take the necessary steps to earn your desired income. It could be going after high paying jobs or properly starting your own business.

 

I use teaching as an example but the same goes for any other profession. A high school educated receptionist believes that she should make more money because she's been doing it for 10 years even without a increase in valuable skills. You are generally paid what you are worth. There are always outliers but it doesn't change the reality. 

[Tank]

Absolutely, if you go into teaching high school students you shouldn't be surprised by the pay. IMO, teachers aren't necessarily underpaid. It's a pretty cush job without a lot of stress of deadlines, problem solving, meeting of goals, etc. Plus you get massive amounts of vaca.

 

 

you've got to be kidding.

[AngelsLongBall]

I think he meant vacay, and not cow?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ABC]

you've got to be kidding.

 

Not at all. I went to school for years and saw them in action.

I have two teachers in my family and listen to their gripes. 

[ABC]

 

I think he meant vacay, and not cow?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

FYI- Words can have more than one meaning. I think your English teachers were def overpaid.

[AngelsLongBall]

FYI- Words can have more than one meaning. I think your English teachers were def overpaid.

That one obviously went over your head.  Tank is a vegetarian, hence the vaca (Spanish for cow)

[mtangelsfan]

The problem with teacher's pay is that it is not really equal to the kind of schooling that one needs to be a teacher.  Good teachers can make all the difference in the world.  Unfortunately, so can bad ones.

 

In my perfect world, the amount of education needed to teach would be drastically reduced and time spent schooling would focus way more on the area of education the teacher wanted to work at.

[ABC]

That one obviously went over your head.  Tank is a vegetarian, hence the vaca (Spanish for cow)

 

I know.

[mtangelsfan]

No

[Adam]

I think teachers are paid fairly. But, I think good teachers bust their asses and deal with a lot of crappy stuff. 

[ABC]

The problem with teacher's pay is that it is not really equal to the kind of schooling that one needs to be a teacher.  Good teachers can make all the difference in the world.  Unfortunately, so can bad ones.

 

In my perfect world, the amount of education needed to teach would be drastically reduced and time spent schooling would focus way more on the area of education the teacher wanted to work at.

 

Schooling should not solely equate to earnings.

 

Good teachers can make a difference but they are rare. The reality is that if the parents do not value education then there is little a teacher can do for the average student. It all starts at home. Look at the poor countries churning out highly educated professionals in areas of extreme demand.

[mtangelsfan]

As long as schooling costs as much as it does, it should be tied to earnings or college loans will never get paid back.