Angels trade for Andrelton Simmons - Aybar, Newcomb, Ellis & $2.5mm to Braves $*#&

[beatlesrule]

lol^

Did I miss the sarcasm? Sorry. I'm on my phone and haven't gotten a chance to read through the thread.

[Oz27]

It's not screw it and do it, they HAVE to do it now or this trade makes no sense!

Yep. While I don't like the Heyward idea, we need to upgrade this team very significantly. It's not all in, it's pretty close to it.

[totdprods]

Hopefully Simmons has texted Heyward and told him to come join him in SoCal!

[ettin]

I agree with that now, but for all we know Newcomb and Ellis could be duds.

Their value in 2016 and beyond is that of a lottery ticket.

In terms of their current trade value this was about an even trade. Long term the Angels will regret this trade particularly if they don't do some damage in the postseason.

But all of this clearly points to the primary tenet of my Primer Series which is to build a winning core of players through Mike Trout's controllable years and Simmons, no matter how you feel about this trade, will make our infield defense very good as his range will allow the Angels to put marginal defensive players at the keystone and hot corner which was looking like what was going to have to happen based on the available pool of players.

For instance in the Second Base article you'll notice that most of our choices and options internally and in free agency and trade were offensive types not defensive ones. Putting someone like Simmons at SS will create less pressure to find good defensive solutions at 2B and 3B, although certainly you'd love to have that there anyway.

[beatlesrule]

Just like Liberace being gay, I didn't see Newcomb being traded no no no.

[CaliAngel]

this assessment shows you you don't know enough about simmons

 

4 years : .256

 

I don't think I'm going to miss Aybars boneheaded moves on the basepaths, or antics in the clubhouse.

 

Best news is this guy hasn't been hurt, so he should be pretty solid in the coming years.

 

Anyone else think a former NY GM might have said a shortstop *cough* Jeter is a good way to begin righting the ship?

[UndertheHalo]

Simmons actually hurt his wrist probably made his struggles with the bat last year more pronounced

[tennischmp]

For instance in the Second Base article you'll notice that most of our choices and options internally and in free agency and trade were offensive types not defensive ones. Putting someone like Simmons at SS will create less pressure to find good defensive solutions at 2B and 3B, although certainly you'd love to have that there anyway.

I actually think now it's more essential to find a good defensive solution at 2B. Someone has to catch what Simmons throws 

[Pujols4MVP]

Lets not undermine how good Simmons is. The Angels got A LOT better defensively. Aybar is a good defensive shortstop. Simmons is the best in the game.

 

He's also marginally worse than Aybar with the bat, so its a wash.

 

But giving up Newcomb for him is absurd.

 

NL East is a pitchers division too. Miami, NY, Wash, Atl are pitcher parks while Philly is the only bandbox in the division compared to having 2 hitter parks in the AL West (Texas and Houston).

[DailyHalo]

In terms of their current trade value this was about an even trade. Long term the Angels will regret this trade particularly if they don't do some damage in the postseason.

But all of this clearly points to the primary tenet of my Primer Series which is to build a winning core of players through Mike Trout's controllable years and Simmons, no matter how you feel about this trade, will make our infield defense very good as his range will allow the Angels to put marginal defensive players at the keystone and hot corner which was looking like what was going to have to happen based on the available pool of players.

For instance in the Second Base article you'll notice that most of our choices and options internally and in free agency and trade were offensive types not defensive ones. Putting someone like Simmons at SS will create less pressure to find good defensive solutions at 2B and 3B, although certainly you'd love to have that there anyway.

Gia just needs to really get a sweat going this off season with the glove. I can't speak for anyone else but he showed some heart with the bat. Johnny's a gritty player, he just gets caught up in the moment sometimes and he makes bonehead plays. You cut a handful of errors out and he looks like a different player. Plus it doesn't hurt that he's close too league minimum.

[101halo]

So after some processing on this:

The Angels gave up too much. Don't care if Simmons plays like a stud here and Newcomb and Ellis both flame out. Both guys could have been used as the center piece of packages that could have filled other, more glaring holes. Aybar, even in his age, was also a fairly valuable commodity and I honestly don't see how the Angels had to give up BOTH of their top prospects AND throw in money for good measure. To me it seems like Eppler panicked.

However, run prevention is incredibly important, and something most fans undervalue. A good defense goes a long way to helping out a pitching staff. People are so caught up in Simmons' mediocre offensive capabilities that they are completely overlooking his incredible defensive value. This move wasn't made with offense in mind. It isn't as though Eppler believes this is what the offense needed to be competitive. Simmons is literally the best defensive player in baseball. Period. He is going to greatly help the pitching staff, especially guys like Richards. And while shortstop wasn't a hole for 2016, it WAS a hole for 2017 and beyond. Now it isn't.

As usual, in complete agreement with you. I don't love the trade, think we gave up too much and if we were going to trade Nuke then I would've preferred elite 3B or LF as the target. That said, people are seriously underrating how good of an upgrade it is to have the best defensive player in the game at the most important defensive position. We're going to love Simmons (so will our pitchers), while really missing Newcomb.

[Pujols4MVP]

I agree with that now, but for all we know Newcomb and Ellis could be duds.

 

Their value in 2016 and beyond is that of a lottery ticket.

 

True. Look at what Detroit gave up to get Miggy from Florida. Most of them turned out to be complete duds & the Top SP prospect ends up being a reliever Andrew Miller. Maybin never could hit for shiit.

[ettin]

I actually think now it's more essential to find a good defensive solution at 2B. Someone has to catch what Simmons throws 

 

I'm speaking mostly about defensive range here tennis. The talk about trying Kubitza out at 2B is making more sense now in light of this Simmons trade. He has a powerful throwing arm and all reports point to solid fielding/glove work so not having great range at the keystone wouldn't be as terrible with Andrelton running everything down up the middle and Kubitza is controllable for several years just like Simmons.

[tdawg87]

Another thing I'd like to point out about Simmons: He's amassed a 4.6 oWAR since his debut. Obviously his value comes from his defense, but it isn't as though he's a complete waste with the bat. There aren't a ton of great hitting shortstops anyway. If he improves even a little bit offensively he's going to be amazing.

[The Dude]

Just hearing about this now. I'm damn near speachless after this move, not really sure I like it. I mean Simmons is legit defensivly, but can he hit? I'm just not seeing this a much of an upgrade and the farm took a huge hit. Going to need some time to let this one sink in. Totally unexpected.

[wopphil]

We gave up one year of Aybar, one prospect in the top 25, and another on the fringe of the top 100, for five years of one of the better shortstops in the game at a reasonable contract. A guy who a couple years ago was worth 7.0 WAR.

Whether you like the trade or not, I struggle to see how we over-paid.

[70runner]

Did the Angels just fix something that wasn't broken?...with VERY expensive parts?

 

Getting younger is great and the guy is a SS phenom, but Aybar remains a solid SS with good speed (rare commodity in the Angels lineup) and could probably play effectively for 2-3 more yrs.  This wasn't/isn't a problem area.

[tdawg87]

Did the Angels just fix something that wasn't broken?...with VERY expensive parts?

 

Getting younger is great and the guy is a SS phenom, but Aybar remains a solid SS with good speed (rare commodity in the Angels lineup) and could probably play effectively for 2-3 more yrs.  This wasn't/isn't a problem area.

 

Aybar wasn't signed for 2-3 more years though. Take out 2016 (his last contract year) and you're down to 1-2 more years of effectiveness and needing to sign him to a 5 year deal to keep him.

[wopphil]

Hey Phil

Yo

[Jason]

Braves fans aren't happy with the trade so I guess everyone loses.

[itsKnoppUitsme]

can anyone please explain how maybe Simmons can be productive bat at some point.  

It seems to me that he is the exact same bat as Aybar

& 100 times better with the glove.

Let's see what else happens this offseason before we judge

[Jason]

Just hearing about this now. I'm damn near speachless after this move, not really sure I like it. I mean Simmons is legit defensivly, but can he hit? I'm just not seeing this a much of an upgrade and the farm took a huge hit. Going to need some time to let this one sink in. Totally unexpected.

He has more pop than Aybar. I think he hit 17 HRs which isn't bad. He will hit enough I think

[Richard]

Did the Angels just fix something that wasn't broken?...with VERY expensive parts?

Getting younger is great and the guy is a SS phenom, but Aybar remains a solid SS with good speed (rare commodity in the Angels lineup) and could probably play effectively for 2-3 more yrs. This wasn't/isn't a problem area.

..Except he's only signed for 1 more year.

[Chuck]

Another thing I'd like to point out about Simmons: He's amassed a 4.6 oWAR since his debut. Obviously his value comes from his defense, but it isn't as though he's a complete waste with the bat. There aren't a ton of great hitting shortstops anyway. If he improves even a little bit offensively he's going to be amazing.

 

and he does have some pop. 17 bombs and 27 doubles a couple seasons ago. 

 

.299/.352/.397 career hitter in the minors. 

[Ordos]

I haven't bothered to look, so someone please help... Who were we expecting to be able to play SS after this year? More Aybar? I don't think Baldoquin is quite ready.

Saying we had no glaring need at SS seems shortsighted, only thinking of this year. I don't like losing Newcomb, but I like having SS locked down with a tangible commodity.