Fire Scioscia

[mp170.6]

or the lack of talent

 

sigh...

[Stradling]

sigh...

I know you hate when I call you out on things like this and look for actually answers, since you know, I don't use any logic, but go position by position with the teams in our division and see how our players stack up. The answer, not very good.

[QuinlansMinion]

I know you hate when I call you out on things like this and look for actually answers, since you know, I don't use any logic, but go position by position with the teams in our division and see how our players stack up. The answer, not very good.

If you seriously think Houston has a better roster, I dont know what to tell you.

[mp170.6]

I know you hate when I call you out on things like this and look for actually answers, since you know, I don't use any logic, but go position by position with the teams in our division and see how our players stack up. The answer, not very good.

 

That's not logical when the 2014 team won 98 games and ranked No. 1 out of 30 teams in Runs Scored. 

 

The loss of Kendrick and Hamilton do not make this team lack talent.  This is basically the same group of guys. 

[Jim]

Haha, dream on. He'll be here for three more years, doing the same things over and over again.

Sadly, I think you're correct.

[Stradling]

If you seriously think Houston has a better roster, I dont know what to tell you.

I'll take Trout over Gomez in CF, I'll take Calhoun over whoever they put in RF, I will take Perez over Conger, and Albert over Chris Carter. That is about it on the offensive side or defensive side.

[Homebrewer]

Too much garlic smell on the plane hurt the road performance this year.

[Stradling]

That's not logical when the 2014 team won 98 games and ranked No. 1 out of 30 teams in Runs Scored.

The loss of Kendrick and Hamilton do not make this team lack talent. This is basically the same group of guys.

It is logical, because over the course of 162 games they are what they are. Howie was very good, Hamilton was better than what we had in LF and last year Iannetta was really good.

[mp170.6]

It is logical, because over the course of 162 games they are what they are. Howie was very good, Hamilton was better than what we had in LF and last year Iannetta was really good.

 

They scored 661 runs this season compared to 773 last year.  Our offense didn't lose 112 runs because Kendrick went away and Iannetta is worse than usual.  Hamilton barely played last year. 

 

If you think last year is irrevelant, then there is no such thing as a good or bad team.  Every year's performance would then be a random, unpredictable event. 

[Stradling]

So then maybe last years team outperformed their abilities. Great job maaging Scioscia!

[mp170.6]

So then maybe last years team outperformed their abilities. Great job maaging Scioscia!

 

You would have to concede that he did a terrible job this season. 

 

Deal?

[Stradling]

They won 85 games with a team that was below average offensively and pitching.

[Inside Pitch]

They scored 661 runs this season compared to 773 last year.  Our offense didn't lose 112 runs because Kendrick went away and Iannetta is worse than usual.  Hamilton barely played last year. 

 

If you think last year is irrevelant, then there is no such thing as a good or bad team.  Every year's performance would then be a random, unpredictable event. 

 

What part of guys going in the tank don't you understand?   

Position* OPS+ 14/15

 

C -  122/78

1B - 125/118

2B - 115/97

SS - 102/82

3B - 103/110

DH - 110/108

RF - 122/106

CF - 167/175

LF - 114/60

 

Team 109/98

 

Some of the names may be the same -- but the performances weren't anything near the same...

 

Team OPS+ last four years...  114 / 110 / 109 / 98

 

Maybe they just went to the well with the same group of guys for one year too many...

Edited October 5, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Stradling]

Yep, and that is all Scioscia's fault, because a few kids on the internet say so.

[mp170.6]

What part of guys going in the tank don't you understand?   

Position* OPS+ 14/15

 

C -  122/78

1B - 125/118

2B - 115/97

SS - 102/82

3B - 103/110

DH - 110/60

RF - 122/106

CF - 167/175

LF - 114/108

 

Team 109/98

 

Some of the names may be the same -- but the performances weren't anything near the same...

 

That's the whole point.  Very rarely in MLB does the majority of a lineup crash and burn so suddenly and drastically. 

 

Wouldn't you agree the job of Scioscia and his coaching staff is to motivate the team and help diagnose/correct any problems to keep them from underperforming exactly how they did in 2015?

[Slegnaac]

How about his brilliant defensive shifts?

Defensive shifts also rely on the pitcher not throwing a meat ball on the outer half of the plate.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Yep, I just saw. Choo 3-6, Fielder 3-5 1hr. Lefties hitting Ramos for .270+

Will this get glossed over as well?

not defending the move, but this bullpen was already average at best with street. Losing him, after losing smith in september, when the starters have all gone short innings the last week or so makes almost any one you put in there suspect.

Im pissed richards was pulled, he should have started the inning. So for that i point a finger at sosh. But once the bullpen (and for whatever reason, the defense again this series) failed, its not like we had a ton of better options.

I commented in the offseason i dodnt like losing grilli and jepsen. One or the other i could understand, but didnt like the idea of taking apart a good pen that took us years to piece together. This game and the zito game are the reason why

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Lol, I'm sure Murphy would have won this game, get a brain.

 

He would have hit a double grand slam in the top of the ninth and put us ahead 10-9.

[tomsred]

You obviously know nothing about Ryne Sandberg, so why don't you just shove your snotty self rightious opinions

 

Yeah, I'm an ignorant SOB, what's your excuse?

[Troll Daddy]

The best team won the West. The Hamels trade and Holland coming back was key. Choo and Fielder playing to their potential was huge for Texas.

Texas will be the team to beat next season with Darvish coming back to the rotation.

I think the Angels need a #1 pitcher more than a LF right now.

Greinke/Price or bust

[Inside Pitch]

That's the whole point.  Very rarely in MLB does the majority of a lineup crash and burn so suddenly and drastically. 

 

Wouldn't you agree the job of Scioscia and his coaching staff is to motivate the team and help diagnose/correct any problems to keep them from underperforming exactly how they did in 2015?

 

I had a long detailed response and then hit backspace..

 

I don't know that any coaching staff can have that sort of an impact, at least not in MLB...  That's not a defense of the coaching staff because I think there is a lot to be critical of there, I just don't know that we can put the sort of implosion we saw on coaches.

 

I believe it's possible the team's core as we knew it had reached it's expiration date.  The offense had been in a slow decline, take out some of those parts and you'd expect some more decline but but not to the level we saw this year.  I don't blame JD either, I don't think anyone can look at the predictive stats from last year and say this was expected.  I think the lack of any semblance of offensive help in the farm system became a legit issue... JD tried to remedy it to an extent by trading for Kubitza but he wasn't ready.  I think the bench was the one area where the team looked noticeably weaker, mostly due to the addition of Featherston and the reality that Cowgill had played over his head and masked his crappiness the previous season.  I think the addition of Disar at 3B was more disastrous than the Joyce trade to be honest.   You've got a manager that is already prone to being overly aggressive and then you put a massive red-ass moron at 3B..   what could go wrong????..

 

I'm not saying trading Howie was the root of the problem, because I don't believe that and I'd make that trade again if I were JD.  But I think it's hard to argue that his boringly consistent if unspectacular bat would have been a real help to this offense -- if nothing else to lengthen the lineup and help provide some sort of consistency through all the peaks and valleys.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Tank]

Yep that would have helped.

 

Smith didn't need to pitch 3 innings.  If you pitch Smith 2 innings the game stays within reach and could have helped give us the momentum to mount a comeback, then you string together a 9th inning with the entire staff.

And if we had won and needed Smith again tomorrow? And then again on Tuesday? Would he have been able to go out there and be effective?

And what makes you think the crapfest that couldn't get out of the seventh would have worked well in the ninth?

[seenoevil]

Sosh is over rated , it's time to look for a new manager. One that will be conducive to work with others

Edited October 5, 2015 by seenoevil

[Tank]

That's the whole point.  Very rarely in MLB does the majority of a lineup crash and burn so suddenly and drastically. 

 

Wouldn't you agree the job of Scioscia and his coaching staff is to motivate the team and help diagnose/correct any problems to keep them from underperforming exactly how they did in 2015?

I think you're argument against sosh lost steam with this post.

If players underperform, the manager needs to replace them. If the GM doesn't give him better talent to use, what then?

Maybe the players just aren't very good. I don't see how that falls squarely on the shoulders of just the manager.

[mp170.6]

Thank you for the fair response, Inside Pitch. 

 

I've never believed their failures rest 100% on the coaching staff.  All I know is Scioscia's tenure during the Moreno era reveals a lot of unexplained failures and inconsistencies that shouldn't be happening.  I don't think they critique themselves in the appropriate manner because we see the same players making the same mistakes over and over again.  That to me is the biggest failure resting on the shoulders of the coaching staff.  When the hitting sucks for an extended period of time, Scioscia needs to hold the hitting coach accountable -- not shield him because it's his pal and former teammate.  When the bullpen crumbles under pressure and shows no signs of improvement, the pitching coach needs to go.  When players struggle all season long in a specific role, find a different role where they will succeed. 

 

That said, if Scioscia stays around and returns next spring to say, "Look, I've been doing some hard thinking.  I need to change my ways.  I need to become a better manager and embrace new ways of thinking.  I need to focus on my 25 players instead of trying to control the organization and the GM.  Please give me another chance"  then I would support him 100%.  I totally would. 

 

Up until now, we've never heard anything remotely similar come out of his mouth.  I wish that would change come Spring 2016.