Hillary compares Repbulicans to Terrorists

[Rico]

People have always rationalized mistreatment of people by denying them their humanity.

What about the mistreatment of women if forced against their will to go through with an unwanted pregnancy.  An event that will forever change her physically as well.

[Rico]

 

Unborn babies have intrinsic worth similar or equal to born people. People should be protected from harm by authorities. Therefore, they should be protected by society.

 

 

In Texas we have babies born that people want to deport.  Hell, Trump is championing this very issue.  Why should a fetus that can't live on its own outside its mother have constitution protection, but not an actual baby born in this country?

[Rico]

But the Bible says that God is the creator of all life, and that by and large is the driving force behind your position on abortion.

Genesis 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

 

Technically the bible makes it sound like a fetus/baby isn't a being or have a soul until it takes its first breath.

[Puget Sound Angel]

Well the Republicans did invade a country (Iraq) that was no threat to us and not responsible for 9/11, but that's more Naz -like.

[InsideThePark]

Genesis 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Technically the bible makes it sound like a fetus/baby isn't a being or have a soul until it takes its first breath.

Many would disagree.

[Rico]

Many would disagree.

I'm sure there are, yet that passage is in the bible.  Traditionally Christians have believed ensoulment happened upon first breath, its thus when the baby became a person.  It has only been a modern trend to say ensoulment happens upon conception.

 

We celebrate our birthdays after all, right?  We don't celebrate our conception, 4 months, or 3rd trimester.  No, we celebrate the day we came into this great big beautiful world that god created for us and we took our first breath.

[Crampknees]

At the rate these elections are going.  I may have to once again write in Mickey Mouse as my choice, since no candidate IMO is fit for the office.

There is a ways to go but they have come out of the gates.  Just wait till they ratchet up for the final kick.  Who knows what they will be saying. 

[Angelsjunky]

Any woman caught having an abortion gets stoned to death live on Fox News.

 

LOL. Post of the thread, maybe of the month.

[Angelsjunky]

Genesis 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

 

Technically the bible makes it sound like a fetus/baby isn't a being or have a soul until it takes its first breath.

 

Wait, you're saying that Christians choose which passages they believe to be true and in what way? That human interpretation is involved?!

 

You don't say.

[Angelsjunky]

He's simply wrong. The Old Testament was written over the course of a few thousand years, and many of the people who wrote it were well settled in cities and towns. Some of the books were written when the Jews were still largely nomadic, during the time after they fled Egypt and wandered in the desert before entering the Promised Land, but not most of them.

 

In the context of the rest of his post, it also reveals a lot. And we're on different wavelengths in the discussion since it's implied that he doesn't believe in the Divine inspiration of the Bible, that it was written for posterity and holds truths about the value of human life that transcend merely human, scientific judgments. He thinks it's a book written merely by men for people at a single place and time. That's not even what most of the authors intended, and that can be discerned very easily.

 

By the way, the late Dr. Bernard Nathanson, who was an abortionist, was converted to the pro-life cause by the scientific realization that what he was doing was ending a human life. Other abortionists and clinic workers have similar stories. The Bible itself doesn't have a whole lot to say specifically about abortion, to my knowledge. Much of the teaching flows from the Fifth Commandment and there's a lot of natural law reasoning behind it.

 

You mean he over-simplified.

 

Out of curiosity, how many women were involved in writing any part of the Bible?

 

The fifth commandment is "honor thy father and mother." What does that have to do with abortion?

 

Anyhow, I don't think you'll find a single human being that actually likes abortion. Well you might, as there are some sick ****s out there, but the vast majority of pro-choice people don't like abortion. But what is the great conservative plan for an alternative? And how are you going to stop back-alley abortions and unregulated clinics?

 

I personally think the problem runs much deeper than abortion, that we need to focus more fully on prevention - specifically improving education, having free contraception on health care plans, and of course poverty.

[Spirit]

 

We celebrate our birthdays after all, right?  We don't celebrate our conception,...

 

 

My wife and I celebrate our kids' conception all the time.  

[the dude abides]

^

Hey-OOOOOO.

[fan_since79]

 

The fifth commandment is "honor thy father and mother." What does that have to do with abortion?

 

 

There are different numberings of the commandments. The original text does not number them. That came along later. The first commandment was split into two separate ones by the Protestants of Luther's time, so in that case what was the 4th commandment (honor thy father and mother) became the fifth, and the fifth (thou shalt not kill) became the sixth, etc.

 

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/matthew-warner/friday_fast_fact_numbering_the_ten_commandments

Edited August 28, 2015 by fan_since79

[mtangelsfan]

Meh, I don't think the abortion issue will be fixed by laws made by a corrupt government.  I have not advocated for any such laws.

 

I'm merely for honesty and calling abortion for what it is.  Dance around with semantics all you want.  It has hands, feet, facial features, a beating heart, feelings, brain function all very early in development.

 

If you are going to fight for the right of people to be able to do this, then own it.

[mtangelsfan]

fan, you are not going to win this.  You are not going to gain anything from this.  This is quite possibly the worst arena for this kind of discussion.

[juansavage1]

Hen3ry: 

 

Thanks for the response. I don't want to argue abortion. Argument resolution can only be come by when people have a common criteria for making a judgment or one side defeats the other and I don't think we'd agree on the criteria. By your statement below, I think you see the problem. One either has a inviolable framework for making moral decisions- some of which might not benefit one immediately- or one makes it up to suit their desires or goals. 

 

The problem is that you can no more prove a fetus is a baby to me than I can prove that it isn't one to you.  That's why we're in this position as a society in the first place.  Personhood is a continuum.   Somewhere between your parents' having sex and your first words, you become a person.

 

So, on my side, I acknowledge that women might have to be willing to "change" their body to not violate a moral principle. You have to admit that your standard is just an opinion based on your emotional disposition, experience, and nurture. 

[fan_since79]

fan, you are not going to win this.  You are not going to gain anything from this.  This is quite possibly the worst arena for this kind of discussion.

 

Oh, I won't be responding anymore on this thread, so don't worry. I was just clarifying the issue of the numbering of the commandments for him. Protestants and Catholics use different systems for numbering them. 

 

You're right, of course. As soon as a pro-choice person admits the humanity of the unborn (I like to call them pre-born), it's very hard to continue to advocate for the right to kill them. Until they do that, it's hopeless to try to convince them that abortion is wrong. 

Edited August 28, 2015 by fan_since79

[Schildog]

fan, you are not going to win this.  You are not going to gain anything from this.  This is quite possibly the worst arena for this kind of discussion.

 

couldn't agree more. 

[Glen]

Hen3ry: 

 

Thanks for the response. I don't want to argue abortion. Argument resolution can only be come by when people have a common criteria for making a judgment or one side defeats the other and I don't think we'd agree on the criteria. By your statement below, I think you see the problem. One either has a inviolable framework for making moral decisions- some of which might not benefit one immediately- or one makes it up to suit their desires or goals. 

 

 

Using that criteria, don't people who pick and choose what parts of the bible they adhere to use to bible to suit their desires and goals?  If you're following certain passages and ignoring others, then the bible isn't inviolable.  

[Tank]

What about the mistreatment of women if forced against their will to go through with an unwanted pregnancy.  An event that will forever change her physically as well.

 

**OVER SIMPLIFICATION ALERT**

 

 

don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[Tank]

Genesis 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

 

Technically the bible makes it sound like a fetus/baby isn't a being or have a soul until it takes its first breath.

 

you're jumping to a different conclusion, and though i disagree, it's a different perspective that i appreciate you bringing to the table.

 

the creation of adam is not the same as a child gestating in its' mothers womb.

[TobiasFunke]

I just want to know if fan thinks abortions should be a states rights issue or not

[Angelsjunky]

There are different numberings of the commandments. The original text does not number them. That came along later. The first commandment was split into two separate ones by the Protestants of Luther's time, so in that case what was the 4th commandment (honor thy father and mother) became the fifth, and the fifth (thou shalt not kill) became the sixth, etc.

 

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/matthew-warner/friday_fast_fact_numbering_the_ten_commandments

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Meh, I don't think the abortion issue will be fixed by laws made by a corrupt government.  I have not advocated for any such laws.

 

I'm merely for honesty and calling abortion for what it is.  Dance around with semantics all you want.  It has hands, feet, facial features, a beating heart, feelings, brain function all very early in development.

 

If you are going to fight for the right of people to be able to do this, then own it.

 

 

You continue to take a black and white perspective on this, with no nuance or sense of development. As I said before, becoming a human being is a developmental process. Is a zygote a human being? An embryo? Where do you draw the line?

 

Here's a related question I'm curious as to your stand on: What do you think about euthanasia? Either doctor-assisted suicide or taking someone off life support? Is taking someone with no brain activity off of life support tantamount to murder, in your eyes?

 

You're right, of course. As soon as a pro-choice person admits the humanity of the unborn (I like to call them pre-born), it's very hard to continue to advocate for the right to kill them. Until they do that, it's hopeless to try to convince them that abortion is wrong. 

 

Like mtangelsfan, you're look at this is a very black and white way.

 

I think the other issue to consider is that regardless of the legality of it, people are going to have abortions. My guess is that if it were illegal, many more women would die because of botched abortions. Why not keep it legal but put money into prevention? And perhaps better social services to help young mothers so that they are less likely to abort?

 

you're jumping to a different conclusion, and though i disagree, it's a different perspective that i appreciate you bringing to the table.

 

the creation of adam is not the same as a child gestating in its' mothers womb.

 

I'd actually disagree with this, that the creation of Adam is a myth that, among other things, symbolizes the birth of the human being, that the womb is the Garden of Eden (which is why men spend much of their lives trying to get back to "Eden" ).

[halobob]

you're jumping to a different conclusion, and though i disagree, it's a different perspective that i appreciate you bringing to the table.

 

the creation of adam is not the same as a child gestating in its' mothers womb.

I always thought adam was created from old asian dudes pics.  

[Jay]

I just want to know if fan thinks abortions should be a states rights issue or not

 

"hey guys let's troll fansince"