22-23 since Jerry quit.

[Chuck]

Regarding Santiago, he is a #2 under complete club control, a valuable asset so far this season. It amazes me how many people forget he is even on the roster.

 

And we still get Skaggs and Heaney, and possibly Richards for a long time. Add Tropeano, Newcomb and Smith, I'm pretty satisfied with our SP. 

[Homebrewer]

" Grade A Aces" are homegrown.

There is enough depth of starters in this org that one could well emerge from the group.

We should be looking at adding "Grade A Pithing Coaches" up and down the minor league system....

[UndertheHalo]

Definitely agree with the posts here about Santiago being undervalued, he's been our most consistent pitcher imo. You can almost bet on what he's going to give you. A very valuable asset. If he gets moved he should command a very solid return but until some of our guys down on the farm are for certain ready and we know that Skaggs will return an effective pitcher I would be hesitant about trading him. The only thing keeping this team a float is top to bottom solid starting pitching.

[UndertheHalo]

Also, I have no problem calling Richards our ace. I really believe he is that type of pitcher. Guy is back from a real bad knee injury. He's had a good season despite that and I don't see any reason to think he won't find the dominance we saw last season again. I'm not a scout or anything but I think mostly the issue with him has been confidence this season. The stuff is certainly still there.

[Homebrewer]

I'm glad Santiago has had a bounce-back season. I always predicted big things from him, and he's such a likeable guy.

Worried about him last year, though.

[HeavenlyHalos]

It's not so much a bounce-back season as it is a career year so far. Last year, he had a 3.75 ERA but struggled at times in the first half, which is why he was used out of the pen for a bit. He rebounded in the second half posting a 2.98 ERA (4.5 in the first half). He is tough to predict going forward as his FIP implies that he is overachieving, but he has been our best starter for over a year now.

[Homebrewer]

He was over-amped a lot early last season. He has learned to harness that energy and spread it out a bit. It's been a noticeable change. 

[tdawg87]

Santiago's last 6 starts: 1-2, 4.59 ERA

 

[tomsred]

Question:  Will Calzone still be updating the record after Jerry quit in the title to this thread in 2017?  If yes, I'm going to have to schedule a brain transplant.

[Ohtaniland]

Question: Will Calzone still be updating the record after Jerry quit in the title to this thread in 2017? If yes, I'm going to have to schedule a brain transplant.

Only until Jerry gets another full time GM job so plan your surgery.

[QuinlansMinion]

I would like to have seen Jerry's full plan finished....

The past two offseasons, he acquired Skaggs, Santiago, Heaney and Tropeano. Going into next year our starting pitching available is:

Weaver, Wilson, Richards, Santiago, Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano and Shoemaker. Newcomb has a chance to be thrown in the mix as well.

If I was a gambling man (truly a no brainer on my part), my early projection for next season:

Richards, Weaver, Heaney and Skaggs

Leaving Shoe, Trop, Wilson and Santiago battling for the fifth spot or (trading high with Santiago), trade bait to fill the LF or 2B hole.

This is hilarous. A guy coming off an all star season and a top 10 era finish will be battling for a 5th spot according to you.

[Oz27]

This is hilarous. A guy coming off an all star season and a top 10 era finish will be battling for a 5th spot according to you.

That is hilarious. He is fighting a losing battle for the fifth spot now, hence why Tropeano is starting instead of him on Thursday. That's with both Skaggs and Wilson out too.

[QuinlansMinion]

That is hilarious. He is fighting a losing battle for the fifth spot now, hence why Tropeano is starting instead of him on Thursday. That's with both Skaggs and Wilson out too.

 

How could he be losing a battle for the 5th spot when he just threw 7 great innings on the road against the best team in the league?  Also I wasnt aware we were using guys on 3 days rest now.  Tropeano is starting in place of Shoemaker, not Santiago.  Hes 5th in the league in ERA, its laughable to think he wouldnt be in the rotation next year unless he breaks down completely to end the season.  

[tomsred]

Only until Jerry gets another full time GM job so plan your surgery.

 

.....I was afraid you might tell me that. 

[Oz27]

How could he be losing a battle for the 5th spot when he just threw 7 great innings on the road against the best team in the league?  Also I wasnt aware we were using guys on 3 days rest now.  Tropeano is starting in place of Shoemaker, not Santiago.  Hes 5th in the league in ERA, its laughable to think he wouldnt be in the rotation next year unless he breaks down completely to end the season.  

I assumed you were talking about Shoemaker, my mistake. But Santiago is no long-term rotation lock either.

[HaloNArizona]

This is hilarous. A guy coming off an all star season and a top 10 era finish will be battling for a 5th spot according to you.

This is why he will moved.  When you look at the starters now, you are not moving Weaver, Richards or Heaney.  Not many people will be willing to take Skaggs, coming of TJ surgery (who was also a better pitcher than Santiago last year).

 

So, that leaves, Trop, Shoe, Wilson and Santiago for the fifth starter.  Who is going to trade for Shoe?  Nobody.  Wilson....maybe, but not at a point where we will truly get anything of quality in return and Wilson can go back to the pen like in Texas.  You can move Trop, but he does have options and is not a bad guy to have.  Don't forget we also have Newcomb in the wings.

 

So, again, looking at the whole picture, Santiago seems to be the odd man out.  Santiago who has been a rock this year (AL Rankings: #12 in Whip, #9 in WAR, #23 in IP and #24 in K's), great time to sell high on him.

[Blarg]

The guy with the team leading ERA and under club control is the odd man out?

 

Sun is  a little hot out there in Arizona, you should stay indoors for a while and cool that brain down.

[HaloNArizona]

The guy with the team leading ERA and under club control is the odd man out?

 

Sun is  a little hot out there in Arizona, you should stay indoors for a while and cool that brain down.

Who are you going to move?

Weaver....Wilson (coming off surgery).....Shoe (coming off Triple A demotion), Skaggs (coming off TJ surgery), Heaney....who?

 

Possible starting pitching for 2016: Weaver, Wilson, Richards, Skaggs, Santiago, Heaney, Shoemaker, Trop, and Newcomb.

 

I am looking at this objectively.  Santiago is the one piece we have that could bring us a solid piece in return.

 

Personally, I like Santiago, I think he is pitching over his head. 

 

I would have tried to move Wilson before the ASB, and before his injury.  I personally think of him as the odd man out.  Maybe you can wait until ST, but I don't the new GM will wait.

[Blarg]

Skaggs will be in AAA working on recovering his control. He was a borderline starter before TJ surgery and has no guaranteed spot. Like Strasburg two years ago, he will have limited innings in 2016 and won't pitch a full season.

[Homebrewer]

Wouldn't count on Skaggs until the ASB next year.

[HaloNArizona]

If they pushed it, Skaggs, would be ready in August/September.  I know the team told him no way until next year.

 

Even is Skaggs isn't ready, we are still stack pretty decently in the SP department. 

 

I feel we will acquire one piece via trade and one piece via FA signing.

[Homebrewer]

You don't push a young, controlled, established and experienced SP after TJ.

He will be handled like the rare commodity he is.

[Dick B Back]

Who are you going to move?

Weaver....Wilson (coming off surgery).....Shoe (coming off Triple A demotion), Skaggs (coming off TJ surgery), Heaney....who?

Possible starting pitching for 2016: Weaver, Wilson, Richards, Skaggs, Santiago, Heaney, Shoemaker, Trop, and Newcomb.

I am looking at this objectively. Santiago is the one piece we have that could bring us a solid piece in return.

Personally, I like Santiago, I think he is pitching over his head.

I would have tried to move Wilson before the ASB, and before his injury. I personally think of him as the odd man out. Maybe you can wait until ST, but I don't the new GM will wait.

I will agree with you that Santiago is pitching over his head. I like him as a person and I'm glad that he's performed well, but deep down inside I think he's a 4+ ERA, 5 inning kinda guy.

I hope he proves me wrong but it will take more than a season and a half to convince me.

[Blarg]

More than a season and a half?

[Ohtaniland]

If they pushed it, Skaggs, would be ready in August/September. I know the team told him no way until next year.

Even is Skaggs isn't ready, we are still stack pretty decently in the SP department.

I feel we will acquire one piece via trade and one piece via FA signing.

We have no idea what Tyler Skaggs will be like when he returns. He's young with lots of potential but he can't be counted in as a starter until he's fully recovered and proves he can still pitch.