SCOTUS: Same Sex Marriage Legal Nationwide

[Lou]

I saw at least one "you ignorant idiot" from him.

 

My favorite thing though is anything we say to him he requests evidence but then he uses anecdotes and feelings to support his posts.

so neither of you provide evidence?

also, why are you refusing to answer as to what religious

beliefs your parents hold/held? I ask because you went to

great lengths to state and "prove" that almost everyone

adheres to the same beliefs that their family and friends

bred them to.

[Adam]

Range balls have always been my go to.  A little white out on the stripes will lessen the judgmental looks from other golfers.

 

It has been a while but there have been days I've played so badly that I've switched to the range ball by the back 9

[Lou]

Range balls have always been my go to.  A little white out on the stripes will lessen the judgmental looks from other golfers.

F that.

screw the stripists, Adam.

[Angelsjunky]

Cannot institutions change and evolve? Shouldn't they?

 

Also, I don't think the Mona Lisa is a good analogy. The Mona Lisa is a work of art, an institution like marriage is a social contract, a social representation of a vow of love. The Mona Lisa represents a particular place and time, and is "perfect" as that. Marriage is something that should reflect the context and culture.

 

As Bob Dylan said, the times they are a'changin.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Angelsjunky

[mtangelsfan]

Cannot institutions change and evolve? Shouldn't they?

 

It depends on what changes you are talking about and what the institution is based upon.

[Lou]

Range balls have always been my go to.  A little white out on the stripes will lessen the judgmental looks from other golfers.

Adam's go-to balls have always been hairy

[juansavage1]

I was raised in a secular home. We never went to church. I held the religion as cultural control/crutch theory, but without the hate, until about 29 when I started becoming Catholic.

One rule I generally have is that if you have to lie, you lose. Every factual statement I make comes with proof upon request, which I copy and paste from reliable sources. Reason is just processing the assumptions.

so neither of you provide evidence?

also, why are you refusing to answer as to what religious

beliefs your parents hold/held? I ask because you went to

great lengths to state and "prove" that almost everyone

adheres to the same beliefs that their family and friends

bred them to.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Juan Savage

[nate]

so neither of you provide evidence?

also, why are you refusing to answer as to what religious

beliefs your parents hold/held? I ask because you went to

great lengths to state and "prove" that almost everyone

adheres to the same beliefs that their family and friends

bred them to.

 

I already posted that I grew up without much religion.  I went to church a bit as a child with my mom but only for a year or two.  My dad is Jewish.

 

Anway like I said, if religion really was a free will choice then there wouldn't be parts of the world that practice one specific religion over all others.  It is a cultural thing.

[nate]

I'm thinking about switching golf balls. I've been playing Nike Vapors for a while and I like them, but they travel a bit longer than I'd like off my irons. 

 

Anyone have a suggestion for a mid-priced ball? $20/Dozen or so.

 

Bridgestone E6

[Lou]

I already posted that I grew up without much religion.  I went to church a bit as a child with my mom but only for a year or two.  My dad is Jewish.

 

Anway like I said, if religion really was a free will choice then there wouldn't be parts of the world that practice one specific religion over all others.  It is a cultural thing.

right, you mentioned that YOU didn't grow up with much religion,

but the question was specifically addressing your parents.

Appreciate the response

what type of church did your mom attend?

Edited June 29, 2015 by Lou

[Lou]

I already posted that I grew up without much religion.  I went to church a bit as a child with my mom but only for a year or two.  My dad is Jewish.

 

Anway like I said, if religion really was a free will choice then there wouldn't be parts of the world that practice one specific religion over all others.  It is a cultural thing.

i don't think anyone has argued that culture doesn't

influence a person's belief system.

However, i'm not sure there's a country

that's citizens practice only one religion

[Angelsjunky]

It depends on what changes you are talking about and what the institution is based upon.

 

This is vague and doesn't really give us anything to work with. In what cases should an institution never change? What must it be based upon?

[gotbeer]

Texas attorney general says county clerks can refuse gay couples

[Adam]

Texas attorney general says county clerks can refuse gay couples

 

That should go smoothly

[Crampknees]

You don't tell Texas what to do.

[Adam]

"He noted that officials who refuse to issue marriage licenses to gay couples could expect to be sued, but he said they would have ample legal support."

 

Haha. 

[TobiasFunke]

"County clerks and their employees retain religious freedoms that may allow accommodation of their religious objections to issuing same-sex marriage licenses,"

RIIIIIIIIIGHT

[mtangelsfan]

This is vague and doesn't really give us anything to work with. In what cases should an institution never change? What must it be based upon?

 

Ok, lets take the Constitution for example.  There are things that will change, such as ammendment, and things that won't change, like freedom of speech.

 

Other intitutions that are based upon sacred texts would really have nothing to base their institution upon if that text was not understood to be true, or that it was true once and then not true.

[juansavage1]

My analogy wasn't perfect, but I just wanted to show that for those who think that marriage is a certain thing, any change to it makes it not only less than perfect, but different.

Some things are exclusive of each other and some evolutions take away other characteristics.

You can change the height of the pitching mound and it would still be baseball, but if you give the option of batting or catching the pitch and throwing it in the outfield, then it might be an entirely different game. You know that there are people who use the word sacred with baseball. People who would change the game so easily probably don't care about it that much.

This analogy isn't perfect either, but I was looking for a baseball one.

Cannot institutions change and evolve? Shouldn't they?

Also, I don't think the Mona Lisa is a good analogy. The Mona Lisa is a work of art, an institution like marriage is a social contract, a social representation of a vow of love. The Mona Lisa represents a particular place and time, and is "perfect" as that. Marriage is something that should reflect the context and culture.

As Bob Dylan said, the times they are a'changin.

[juansavage1]

Ha. Thanks. What if they can't object in the private sector because of some law?

"well, they can object in their house. "

Remember what I said about the difference between freedom of worship and freedom of religion?

I think that people fail to see what this movement is really about. Sure, you get the love wins people who want to see their gay friend feel good, but it's primarily a front in the culture war.

Sure they can object. They can find a job in the private sector and object all they want. If they want to continue to be govt employees, they're gonna have to get their ab fab licenses ready pronto.

[TobiasFunke]

Juan, can you do us all a favor and type your response below the quote? It's just a thread pet peeve of mine.

[Glen]

Is the war on Christmas a battle in the overall culture war? What other wars fall under that broad umbrella?

[mtangelsfan]

Speaking of pet peeves, if you are responding to juan, can you make it known.

 

I don't want to give any more responses if the post I was answering was actually directed at juan.

[Angelsjunky]

Ok, lets take the Constitution for example.  There are things that will change, such as ammendment, and things that won't change, like freedom of speech.

 

Other intitutions that are based upon sacred texts would really have nothing to base their institution upon if that text was not understood to be true, or that it was true once and then not true.

 

OK, I basically agree with you although with the caveat that human culture and civilization could change so much that in a few hundred years "freedom of speech" might need to be amended. What if we communicate telepathically through technology? If that sounds far-fetched, I read somewhere that within a few years we'll be able text with our thoughts. But would "freedom of speech" apply if I wanted to send you a hateful text? Again, I don't mean to nitpick but to point out that culture and civilization change, and the Constitution needs to adapt to what is happening now (whenever "now" is).

 

My analogy wasn't perfect, but I just wanted to show that for those who think that marriage is a certain thing, any change to it makes it not only less than perfect, but different.

Some things are exclusive of each other and some evolutions take away other characteristics.

You can change the height of the pitching mound and it would still be baseball, but if you give the option of batting or catching the pitch and throwing it in the outfield, then it might be an entirely different game. You know that there are people who use the word sacred with baseball. People who would change the game so easily probably don't care about it that much.

This analogy isn't perfect either, but I was looking for a baseball one.

 

 

Yes, I hear that and agree that some things are best left unchanged, like the Mona Lisa or even the rules of baseball (for the most part). But some things can adapt to the culture, and that includes marriage. But again, let's be clear that "marriage" isn't only a religious institution. It is a societal, cultural, and legal one. Different marriages have different cultural elements, and some may have absolutely no religion to it.

 

All that said, I do question the idea that specific churches should be forced to grant gay marriages. County clerks? Definitely - a county clerk is a legal, federal role, not a religious (private) one. But as far as I understand it, churches are private. I mean, if I start a club and I don't want a certain "type" of person in it, I shouldn't have to include them.

[juansavage1]

Is the war on Christmas a battle in the overall culture war? What other wars fall under that broad umbrella?

Yes. I define the culture war as policy battles that have primarily to do with a certain philosophical viewpoint. Some have elements of both practicality and culture and some aren't an all of nothing issue. 

 

Others, off the top of my head, are (I will also give the cultural issue at stake): 

 

1. Abortion. View of children as people and as people as having souls and therefore inviolate rights versus lack of impediments for personal fulfillment. 

2. Parental rights. View of parents as having authority versus the state. Everybody agrees that children should be protected from severe physical harm.

3. Public pornography/decency in music. View that anything is OK as long as people consent versus promotion of a Christian morality. 

4. Marriage. View of purposeful, conjugal marriage versus marriage as state validation of emotions. 

5. School choice. 

6. Flags and holidays- symbols of the nation. 

7. History classes. What to emphasize. Marxist versus traditional view of history. 

8. Sex ed. 

9. Guns. Personal freedom versus state monopoly on violence. 

 

A lot of these are sexual. The left has mostly lost on economic issues, but has mostly won on sexual issues.