Fun fact about US military spending

[nate]

Let's not confuse people with facts.

[TobiasFunke]

Re-listening to The Ballad of October 16, God that song is great. I'll tell you what, that's exactly what my stance would have been pre-Pearl Harbor. Going to war for the benefit of corporations is the theme, sounds like a familiar one in 2015 huh? Mentioning JP Morgan and Singapore.

"But now I'm wearing khaki jeans and eating army beans And I'm told that J. P. Morgan loves me so""We got to get tough to save democracy. And though it may mean warWe must defend Singapore This don't hurt you half as much as it hurts me."

[nate]

Still, Night Moves was his best work.

[TobiasFunke]

Pete Seeger and the Bronze Bullet Band. I have all their stuff.

[juansavage1]

You're wrong on Seeger regarding the time frame. First off it was The Almanac Singers (which he was in) that released the 78s. Second, Their first group of 78s was Songs For John Doe which was an anti-war album when Russia was not involved in the war. Once Germany invaded Russia, they flipped their opinion on the war and made the Dear Mr. President 78s. It had nothing to do with supporting Nazi Germany Juan (as if you know anything about this topic at all) but supporting Russia. Here is the explanationfrom the horses mouth:

Both albums have outstanding songs on it.

Funny this quote thing doesn't work in IE. 

 

Anyways, I didn't say that Seeger supported Nazis. He supported the Soviet Union. When the Soviets agreed with the Nazis to partition Poland and the Baltics, the Soviets told Seeger and other Communists to cool it about Germany and resist American intervention (and, the Soviets didn't release a famous anti-German movie), which he did, as a loyal Communist. When the Nazis attacked the Soviets (like the Yankees playing the As), the Soviets told American Communists to agitate for intervention, which they did. 

 

I bring this up because I think for many their stance on the American power has to do with their perception of the US and its enemies. Seeger saw the US as intervening for corporate interests when it hurt the Soviets and then as Crusaders against the evil Nazis when it helped the Soviet Union. 

[TobiasFunke]

I feel that we shouldnt go to war over corporate interests (like we do currently), does that make me an enemy of the state, communist, socialists, or whatever else you want to call me?

[nate]

leftist

[mtangelsfan]

1: Most of you were much, much better than the average internet discussion partner, so thanks.

 

2. My main thesis is that people's attitude towards the military has to do with what they think of those countries generally opposed to the US (Communists, Nazis, terrorists in the 20th century) and the role the US plays in the world. Chomsky would be famous examples of the kind of person I'm talking about. There are others, like strict pacifists and Libertarians, but these are rare now and practically non-existent historically. AS you know, Chomsky tried to minimize the Cambodian genocide until the Vietnamese invaded. He tried to maximize US misdeeds.

 

The best story in connection with thesis is Pete Seeger. Seeger, as you know was a folk musician and a Communist. When the Soviets signed a treaty with Hitler, Seeger released an anti-war album. As soon as the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, Seeger recalled the album.

 

I think if you correlate what I've discussed, you'll see that my thesis is supportable by facts.

 

Unless there are specific questions addressed to me, I'd like to quietly leave the thread.

 

I think you are painting with a brush that is three times as wide as the house you are painting.

 

While i think people are greatly influecned by letters after names while voting and many times just go with what the wind is blowing in, i also think that there are plenty of folks who can still look at a situation and use their own reasoning.

 

For instance, I am very pro military in as far as how they are paid and how they are taken care of.  I believe that anyone who puts their lives on the line for this country should be treated better than most.  That doesn't mean I support all the money that the military gets.  It doesn't mean I'm not able to look at the last several decades of U.S. military intervention and recognize that they have messed up more than they have helped, by a long way.

 

We should be willing to question because asking a young person to risk their own lives, be willing to take the life away from others who they don't even know, is one of the biggest deals you could ask of someone.    God forbid the day when we blindly follow anyone or anything into war.

[nate]

communist

[mtangelsfan]

"heil ................marx?"

[juansavage1]

Fair enough guys. Things are always more complicated, but if we can't generalize, we can't discuss anything.

A communist believes certain things. Not everybody who wants a smaller military or wants the US to intervene less in the world is a communist, but most people who think like Zinn and Chomsky, do.

[TobiasFunke]

I got a crazy idea, how about we have an adult conversation on here and instead of generalizing, we provide facts and stats to back up opinions???

 

Crazy I know, but...

 

[juansavage1]

I generalize from facts.

[InsideThePark]

But I want to generalize and make blanket statements, dammit!

[HaloMagic]

A communist believes certain things. Not everybody who wants a smaller military or wants the US to intervene less in the world is a communist, but most people who think like Zinn and Chomsky, do.

I'd fair to venture that there are far more people who want a smaller military or want to intervene less than there are people like Zinn and Chomsky. You're generalizing the wrong way.

[arch stanton]

Is there a right way to generalize?

[juansavage1]

Is there a right way to generalize?

Yes. People do it all the time. Think of the insurance and advertising industry who make money from generalizations. Generally speaking, guys like to watch sports, drink beer, hand out with friends, and look at girls. Those things correlate. That's why we have certain beer commercials during games. Baseball fans are like this, basketball fans are like that. Angel fans are like this, Dodger fans are like that. 

 

Political consultants do the same thing. Conservatives like this. Liberals like that. You probably won't find a lot of Chomsky fans at American Sniper and you won't find a lot of conservatives at Brokeback Mountain. The trick to generalizing accurately is basing it on facts and research and not to oversimplify. 

[Spirit]

And look at what a positive outlook people have about insurance companies (sorry Nate) and political consultants.  

[Glen]

Juan has a weird attraction to Chomsky. I'm fairly liberal and I've never met one person who cares about Chomsky or even cites him as some sort of influence. Hurrah for anecdotal evidence.

[nate]

Trying to figure out how the insurance industry makes money from generalizations...

[Glen]

Trying to figure out how the insurance industry makes money from generalizations...

Seems to me it would be just the opposite.

[arch stanton]

Yes. People do it all the time. Think of the insurance and advertising industry who make money from generalizations. Generally speaking, guys like to watch sports, drink beer, hand out with friends, and look at girls. Those things correlate. That's why we have certain beer commercials during games. Baseball fans are like this, basketball fans are like that. Angel fans are like this, Dodger fans are like that. 

 

Political consultants do the same thing. Conservatives like this. Liberals like that. You probably won't find a lot of Chomsky fans at American Sniper and you won't find a lot of conservatives at Brokeback Mountain. The trick to generalizing accurately is basing it on facts and research and not to oversimplify. 

So the correct way to generalize is to be very specific? Those who identify as liberal or conservative are nearly lockstep in their views anymore. Advertisers spend a ton of cash on research to target ads.

[Crampknees]

Trying to figure out how the insurance industry makes money from generalizations...

Scratched my head on that one also.  You could generalize and say every smoker will die of lung cancer and every teen will end up excluded from your policy I guess. They charge higher premiums for higher risk but not sure that actually makes them more money. 

[Crampknees]

you won't find a lot of conservatives at Brokeback Mountain.

================================================

 

Have you ever been to Texas?  Only steers and queers come from Texas

 

 

Was that a generalization?

[TobiasFunke]

That might have been one of his factual generalizations