congrats millennials

[cez]

I guess what's concerning is when an 18-year old, fresh out of high school, lacks the vocabulary to fill out a job application. 

 

My neighbor's kid was supposedly pretty smart and got good grades.  I happened to be over there when he was doing an application on the computer.  On the part asking about criminal history, he didn't know the meanings of Infraction, Misdemeanor, Felony, Probation, Nolo Contendere, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember right now.  They didn't teach this stuff in my high school either. 

 

There's just no hope for this country if after 18 years of being a kid and preparing them for adulthood, we don't provide them with the most essential knowledge to function in life.

i'd say that being able to break down writing of all kinds is an essential skill to function in life. 

 

but i do understand what you're saying. 

 

very few parents look at public education as anything more than babysitting, and there's so little incentive to be a teacher after spending $50,000 on college, most teachers just aren't very knowledgeable of their content area. 

[Hollyw00d]

I'm sorry if this offends anybody, it's just how I see things in the public school system:

ENGLISH: Too much time wasted reading and writing poetry and fiction. Nowhere near enough time devoted to the real world. Why read Shakespeare when kids can't read well enough after graduation to fill out job applications, apply for financial aid, or even comprehend the news?

MATH: Blow it up and start from scratch. The idea that adults need to do the quadratic equation or algebraic factoring by hand, (or do much of anything by hand) is an antiquated notion. Geometric proofs suck at teaching kids logic. Personal finance should be incorporated into the required math curriculum.

SCIENCE: Easier entry to science classes even if you suck at math. Sometimes science (i.e. physics) helps people to understand math better. Most kids avoid these classes due to their remedial math skills.

HISTORY: Teach more at the high school level, less in K-6. A lot of history is too complex for younger children.

ART, MUSIC, THEATRE: Discontinue about 50% of the classes. They are a crutch to kids who suck in other classes -- it's a great way to pad a GPA and dismiss the reality of being a poor student.

HONORS/AP/IB CLASSES: Scrap all of them. Gifted students don't need extra attention. Giving them preferential treatment makes them arrogant and less inclined to learn new things.

I'm glad you're not the department head of education somewhere. Those are all terrible ideas imo

Edited March 6, 2015 by Hollyw00d

[mtangelsfan]

Honestly I believe the entire system needs to be scrapped.  It is based on the Industrial Revolution with kids seen as parts being produced in an assembly line.  All kids each grade taught the same things at the same time at the same place in the same way.

 

We limit kids by treating them all the same.

[mp170.6]

helps develop creativity and a critical eye. 

 

I think creativity and self-expression are overemphasized because the way they are taught, anything goes.  There is no wrong answer or methodology.

 

Yes, kids should be encouraged to find new ways to solve problems.  But I see that as being innovative, not creative. 

[mp170.6]

I'm glad you're not the department head of education somewhere. Those are all terrible ideas imo

 

That's fine.  Explain why you disagree. 

 

After all, this is a discussion forum.

[mtangelsfan]

I think creativity and self-expression are overemphasized because the way they are taught, anything goes.  There is no wrong answer or methodology.

 

Yes, kids should be encouraged to find new ways to solve problems.  But I see that as being innovative, not creative. 

 

I think you are just parsing on that one.  One thing studies have shown is that kids get less creative (innovative) each grade they move up.  The process is telling them that there are limited ways of solving problems instead of leaving it open for them to solve the problem the way they feel most comfortable.

[halobob]

I'm sorry if this offends anybody, it's just how I see things in the public school system:

 

ENGLISH:  Too much time wasted reading and writing poetry and fiction.  Nowhere near enough time devoted to the real world.  Why read Shakespeare when kids can't read well enough after graduation to fill out job applications, apply for financial aid, or even comprehend the news?

 

MATH:  Blow it up and start from scratch.  The idea that adults need to do the quadratic equation or algebraic factoring by hand, (or do much of anything by hand) is an antiquated notion.  Geometric proofs suck at teaching kids logic.  Personal finance should be incorporated into the required math curriculum. 

 

SCIENCE:  Easier entry to science classes even if you suck at math.  Sometimes science (i.e. physics) helps people to understand math better.  Most kids avoid these classes due to their remedial math skills.

 

HISTORY:  Teach more at the high school level, less in K-6.  A lot of history is too complex for younger children.

 

ART, MUSIC, THEATRE:  Discontinue about 50% of the classes.  They are a crutch to kids who suck in other classes -- it's a great way to pad a GPA and dismiss the reality of being a poor student. 

 

HONORS/AP/IB CLASSES:  Scrap all of them.  Gifted students don't need extra attention.  Giving them preferential treatment makes them arrogant and less inclined to learn new things. 

I don't understand why you want this.  I don't believe these classes give kids any preferential treatment or makes them less inclined to learn new things.  The reason they are in these classes is because they enjoy learning.  

[mp170.6]

I don't understand why you want this.  I don't believe these classes give kids any preferential treatment or makes them less inclined to learn new things.  The reason they are in these classes is because they enjoy learning.  

 

You sure it isn't at their parents' insistence they take Honors classes?

[Tank]

I think creativity and self-expression are overemphasized because the way they are taught, anything goes.  There is no wrong answer or methodology.

 

Yes, kids should be encouraged to find new ways to solve problems.  But I see that as being innovative, not creative. 

 

i think innovation and creativity both serve important purposes. look at what the baby boomers created. innovative and creative. do you see the millenials doing the same kinds of things? they might be stronger in computer skills, but they are not in a very good place when it comes to solving problems.

[sneaky_flute]

Baby boomers haven't created shit. You're thinking of the following generation. 

[Gavin]

i'd say that being able to break down writing of all kinds is an essential skill to function in life.

but i do understand what you're saying.

very few parents look at public education as anything more than babysitting, and there's so little incentive to be a teacher after spending $50,000 on college, most teachers just aren't very knowledgeable of their content area.

To piggy back on this point a predominant portion of my less endowed friends, I'm being PC here, are entering the teaching world. They are the fluffy, high energy people who didn't do to well in school themselves.

If you can't do, teach. Am I right?

And yes, that was a joke before any of the teachers jump on me for that.

[Hollyw00d]

Like any profession, there's good teachers and bad teachers.

I think people skills and being able to relate is a critical skill in teaching

[Kevin]

 

MATH:  Blow it up and start from scratch.  The idea that adults need to do the quadratic equation or algebraic factoring by hand, (or do much of anything by hand) is an antiquated notion.  Geometric proofs suck at teaching kids logic.  Personal finance should be incorporated into the required math curriculum. 

I agree about getting kids getting more education in personal finances and the consequences of bad financial planning. *Insert $300 Trout jersey reference.

We have all heard the cliche' "When am I ever going to use this?" And to some degree I understand that line of thinking. In my opinion there is a hidden message in math that relates to life and that is you have a problem that needs to be solved, figure out how to do it. Find a solution. Figure out multiple ways in solving it. We may not use the the type of math we learn in school later on in life but it's a good training method for using our mind to work through problems we all face in my opinion.

[Gavin]

Hollywood, you bring up a great point about teaching there.  Some of the best schools in California are the UCs (I'm lumping them all together, sue me).  Their curriculum is considered "theory based".  In essence much of what is taught are things that COULD happen, and in order to predict those happenings we use charts, graphs, models, etc.  As applicable as that may sound, my Business Economics core classes were essentially worthless unless I wanted to be a derivative trader or an economist.  Furthermore, the professors at these UCs aren't 100% invested in teaching.  In fact, I'd say you'd be lucky to get a professor who is even half of that.  These professors are trying to get their research published, because more published work means more notoriety and possibly a nobel prize for the rare few.  

 

What does that have to do with people skills and being able to relate?  If they're primary objective is outside of the scope of teaching, is it really that outlandish to think that these professors aren't trying to relate and/or don't care to try?

 

That being said I'm glad I went to a UC as it made me work my ass off because I wasn't getting a ton of help in the classroom.  If I struggled, then I would get to study hall or office hours regularly.  

 

Just more food for thought for you and everyone for that matter.

[cez]

I agree about getting kids getting more education in personal finances and the consequences of bad financial planning. *Insert $300 Trout jersey reference.

We have all heard the cliche' "When am I ever going to use this?" And to some degree I understand that line of thinking. In my opinion there is a hidden message in math that relates to life and that is you have a problem that needs to be solved, figure out how to do it. Find a solution. Figure out multiple ways in solving it. We may not use the the type of math we learn in school later on in life but it's a good training method for using our mind to work through problems we all face in my opinion.

it's a catch 22 there.

 

kids can indeed use financial planning education in the future, so technically it does answer "When am I ever going to use this?"

 

However, until they actually start having to make decisions with their own money (not allowances or part time jobs while living with mommy and daddy for free), they really don't care much about it. financial planning is gigo for most kids, and there's no way around it. 

[Amazing Larry]

it's a catch 22 there.

kids can indeed use financial planning education in the future, so technically it does answer "When am I ever going to use this?"

However, until they actually start having to make decisions with their own money (not allowances or part time jobs while living with mommy and daddy for free), they really don't care much about it. financial planning is gigo for most kids, and there's no way around it.

I'm pretty sure they don't care about postulates or theorems either. At least a class in finance will benefit them in the real world. There are too many people who don't have the financial know how to make positive conscious decisions.

Besides, I can't remember a time where I've been in a quandary and thought to myself "Hey! Euclid's proof of the infinitude of primes will get me out of this one!" I'd rather have kids focus on things most beneficial to them.

[cez]

I'm pretty sure they don't care about postulates or theorems either. 

nothing i said refutes that. 

[cez]

from what i've learned about from math teachers at the schools I've taught at, financial planning education is gigo the same as theorems and postulates for most kids.  

 

knowing geometry and trig to score well on the SAT/ACT is indeed important to know for kids who are looking to get into good schools and/or get scholarships, so let's not get too crazy with saying they think none of it matters. 

 

as for honors classes, i'm a big fans of the IB model that a lot of european nations use.  for the first 2 years of high school, kids take a variety of academic classes, but they get tracked into either vocational or academic programs around their junior year.  

 

where i teach, we have an AMAZING vocational skills school that a lot of our kids who want to become skilled workers get into.  i tell my kids all the time that skilled workers who get certificated and/or complete interships/apprenticeships make more than I do, and have less debt as well.  

[mp170.6]

I think Personal Finance would be appropriate senior year of high school when everybody is turning 18 and moving out or going to college or whatever. 

 

That's probably when they would listen most. 

[Tank]

this elementary school has eliminated homework. some interesting reactions, though it's definitely a small sample size.

 

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/06/parents-outraged-after-elementary-school-abolished-homework/21150479/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl33%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D623742

[ELEVEN]

Know where they teach all sorts of skills that can be used in real life?

Trade School.

[Lou]

we had to take a Business Economics class...

in high school.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Lou

[Blarg]

Nobody teachers grammar anymore.  

 

I'm not a fan of making kids diagram sentences or anything, but most of them don't even know what nouns are.

 

My wife would like to have a word with you.

[Taylor]

Millennials sku.

[Taylor]

On 3/6/2015 at 9:27 AM, mtangelsfan said:

Yeah public school system!!!!!!

Yeah boomers who raised the millennials!!!!!