Howie's Future

[WallyWorld]

Kendrick is 6th in WAR among 2nd basemen since 2010. I know you don't like the guy but pretending like he's an awful player is quite funny. 

 

As far as the zero game plan comment, he walked at the highest rate of his career this season. I wouldn't consider that to be "no adjustment". 

 

you're talking about a low WAR position though. So that difference isn't much. If you can put a Grant Green or Gordon Beckham in there - and have little to no fall-off - AND you gain a SP, then why wouldn't you do that? 

 

as for the walk rate, no argument, I was surprised and impressed with that this year. And if he continued into next year I'd be absolutely shocked.

[tdawg87]

you're talking about a low WAR position though. So that difference isn't much. If you can put a Grant Green or Gordon Beckham in there - and have little to no fall-off - AND you gain a SP, then why wouldn't you do that? 

 

as for the walk rate, no argument, I was surprised and impressed with that this year. And if he continued into next year I'd be absolutely shocked.

 

There's definitely going to be some fall off. Especially if Beckham gets regular starts. I like Green and feel that he could easily replace Howie's bat but his glove is definitely an issue. One way or another, they will miss Howie. But like I said, it could be worth it if the pitcher or pitchers he brings are young with upside.

[Angel Oracle]

huh?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kendrho01.shtml?redir

 

He's pretty consistent

Take a look since 2009 at the odd numbered years (no OPS under .775) and the even numbered years (no OPS over .744).

Granted 2014 was the best of his even numbered years since 2009.

Come to think of it, that's why they should probably keep him for one more season (good in odd numbered years) and then at best offer arbitration for the draft pick if he refuses it.

Should have done the same with Erv, and of course as expected Erv was good (odd numbered year) in 2013 for KC.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[Second Base]

Howie was going to be traded last offseason, until Dipoto realized there was more value to be had in parting ways with Trumbo.  But Howie can't be traded now because he's played himself into necessity again. The defense he played this year, I feel safe saying may have been the best we've ever seen from him.  The offense, despite having a down year in the power department was exactly what this team needed. 

 

I'm in favor of trading Howie because I feel like his value is up and that Grant Green across a full year can really do some things.  I also feel like Alex Yarbrough is going to surprise a lot of people and have a career that matches Kendricks.  But I'm also fully aware of the fact that Howie means a lot to this team and that trading him could very well be a bad idea. 

[HaloMilliVanilli]

I'd be fine trading Howie (and Hamilton) if it gave us more pitching options, preferably younger arms.  If we acquired an arm or two via trade to put with Weaver, Shoemaker, Wilson, Santiago, Richards (hopefully returning by May), and Rasmus, we might not have to chase arms via free agency.  Even if we do dip into f/a, it will likely be someone looking to remake their value like Wada or Brett Anderson hopefully on a cheap, one-year deal.

 

If we didn't hit f/a for arms, we might be able to use that money for a hitter.

[Chuck]

Problem is, Howie suffers from Erv-itis (up one season and down the next).

 

What you smoking? I want some.

[DB24]

Put me in the keep "Kendrick & Aybar together" group.

[Stradling]

The hatred Howie gets on here is almost on the level of the hatred Scioscia gets. The Howie hate is from guys who expect an all star at every position. Or that players are either great or they suck. Year in and year out he is a 3 WAR player, but gets shit on for not being a batting champion, or not performing in the playoffs (sample size anyone). He's a very solid player that is paid far less than what the going rate is per WAR.

[mtangelsfan]

It really is nonsensical.  

[WallyWorld]

The hatred Howie gets on here is almost on the level of the hatred Scioscia gets. The Howie hate is from guys who expect an all star at every position. Or that players are either great or they suck. Year in and year out he is a 3 WAR player, but gets shit on for not being a batting champion, or not performing in the playoffs (sample size anyone). He's a very solid player that is paid far less than what the going rate is per WAR.

 

not at all true in my case, Strad. My dislike for Howie stems from his horrible ABs, ultra streakiness, and questionable baseball IQ. He just does all the little things wrong IMO. Death by a thousand paper cuts style. But I get that I'm overly harsh on the guy - his play drives me nuts.

 

I don't at all expect an all-star 2B - quite the opposite really. I'd be happy with a completely average 2B, because it's not a strong position league-wide. The difference between the best and average isn't that big. So in this case, if we can slot in an average 2B (which I think Green could be) and are able to trade Howie for a need (SP), it makes total sense.

[Second Base]

Regardless of Howie's performance, ask this, is there any team willing to give the Angels what they need and value in return for Kendrick?

Last offseason, the Angels asked the White Sox for Jose Quintana for Kendrick, which they wisely declined. Prior to that, a Kemdrick for Zach Lee deal was also declined.

It is evident the Angels are willing to part with him, but only at the price of YOUNG starting pitching. But the teams that have it, aren't giving it up for Howie Kendrick.

Thus it appears to be moot point. He won't be traded.

[Broad Street]

Just out of curiosity, how does Howie's game compare to that Cuban 2nd baseman that just defected?

[nikkachez]

Just out of curiosity, how does Howie's game compare to that Cuban 2nd baseman that just defected?

I was actually just gonna say something about Jose Fernandez. Scouts love his plate discipline, contact skills, hand-eye coordination, and overall hit tool (only struck out 10 times last year! With a plus .400 OBP). Not much power, speed, and a "meh" defender at second, but his hit tool would justify everything else. I know a lot of people harp on about a leadoff guy being a burner on the paths, but getting a near .400 OBP from him, Trout, Pujols, and then maybe Calhoun in the cleanup spot could do some damage. Then you trade Howie for a #3 type starter and a utility player and still stay under the tax threshold. Non-tender Beckham and save yourself another $5 million to add a DH 

[Inside Pitch]

The Angels lost two games to the Royals where poor defensive plays directly led to runs, runs that had they not scored would have resulted in Angel victories and not extra inning losses.  So naturally everyone wants to make the defense worse...  

 

Adding pitching is a great idea.  Weakening the defense up the middle is not.

[Inside Pitch]

you're talking about a low WAR position though. So that difference isn't much. If you can put a Grant Green or Gordon Beckham in there - and have little to no fall-off - AND you gain a SP, then why wouldn't you do that? 

 

as for the walk rate, no argument, I was surprised and impressed with that this year. And if he continued into next year I'd be absolutely shocked.

 

Have you seen Green play defense?   Its not even the balls he botches, its the ones he doesnt get near to because he has zero instincts and the worst first step I have ever seen from a middle IFer.   At least his arm has some zip in it.

[TroutCron]

Howie won't bring much in trade since he is only under contract for next season. I would wait until the trade deadline to see if there are better options.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Can't be the Royals. They hit in the playoffs 

 

Maybe they need somebody who doesn't to balance out their lineup.

[Second Base]

I think that was pretty unfair to rate Green like that. His first step isn't good but it also isn't that bad either. He has a very good glove and fringe average range with a decent arm.

It's his foot work that I find to be poor along with his instincts at 2B.

Don't get me wrong, he's a below average defender there but he has the athletic ability to eventually be average or even above.

But that's not the reason he'll be in the lineup. It's the bat. That kid can flat out hit.

[wopphil]

I think that was pretty unfair to rate Green like that. His first step isn't good but it also isn't that bad either. He has a very good glove and fringe average range with a decent arm.

It's his foot work that I find to be poor along with his instincts at 2B.

Don't get me wrong, he's a below average defender there but he has the athletic ability to eventually be average or even above.

But that's not the reason he'll be in the lineup. It's the bat. That kid can flat out hit.

He is a slappy hitter who will never hit for power or take a walk. Not that much different than Howie.

[Brent Maguire]

you're talking about a low WAR position though. So that difference isn't much. If you can put a Grant Green or Gordon Beckham in there - and have little to no fall-off - AND you gain a SP, then why wouldn't you do that? 

 

as for the walk rate, no argument, I was surprised and impressed with that this year. And if he continued into next year I'd be absolutely shocked.

That's what WAR is about. Certain positions aren't going to get much production, 2nd base being one of them. Howie is above average in many aspects and plays a premium position. 

 

I'll also highly disagree about the drop off to Beckham/Green. 

 

Green doesn't walk and is a poor defender. Beckham has been replacement level every year since his rookie season. 

[AngelStew43]

For myself, it would depend on what we got in return.  Beckham and Green are decent options, but there would be a dropoff from Kendrick.  If Howie's entire contract is moved, we'd have a little more cash to spend in the FA market, with an emphasis (I hope) on starting pitching. 

 

I think we are stuck with Hamilton.  I would like to find a younger option to play in the outfield, but I can't see any chance of moving that contract.

[Inside Pitch]

I think that was pretty unfair to rate Green like that. His first step isn't good but it also isn't that bad either. He has a very good glove and fringe average range with a decent arm.

 

 

Then it's possible you're ignoring what he actually does in favor of dreaming about what his athleticism could turn into.   He's been awful at 2B, IMO it's his worst defensive position by a rather large margin.

 

There have been at least 7 or 8 different times I've watched Green take a step and quit on a ball that he actually had a chance to get, that's the single most annoying thing a middle IF can do IMO...  It's not just balls on the ground, he's done it on pop ups...  balls Kendrick routinely turns into outs.  I don't question his ability to turn hit balls into outs when he can get to the ball, he can even make a spectacular play, but for all his athletic ability he's ridiculously stiff and he just stands there and watches balls go by him far too often.   

 

I'd sooner put him in LF over Hamilton and let Hamilton DH than I would let him play everyday at 2B.  Hell I was in favor of using him at DH over Ibanez even before Ibanez crapped the bed.  He stands a better chance of having his athleticism let him recover from a bad read or poor 1st step in LF than he ever does at 2B -- not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

Defense is something that I think get's underrated, in part because WAR seems to overvalue it and the anti-stat sect that is already in  love with offense and HRs tends to dismiss it's importance.  The "golden era" Angels teams of the previous decade all did an extremely good job of turning batted balls into outs, they lacked a big time offense but they limited mistakes and suppressed runs, particularly late in games..   I'd hate to see the team move away from defense again, particularly after what we saw in 2013 and the impact it had on the pitching.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[shellback]

howie needs to learn how to hit a breaking ball.

[Adam]

Then it's possible you're ignoring what he actually does in favor of dreaming about what his athleticism could turn into.   He's been awful at 2B, IMO it's his worst defensive position by a rather large margin.

 

There have been at least 7 or 8 different times I've watched Green take a step and quit on a ball that he actually had a chance to get, that's the single most annoying thing a middle IF can do IMO...  It's not just balls on the ground, he's done it on pop ups...  balls Kendrick routinely turns into outs.  I don't question his ability to turn hit balls into outs when he can get to the ball, he can even make a spectacular play, but for all his athletic ability he's ridiculously stiff and he just stands there and watches balls go by him far too often.   

 

I'd sooner put him in LF over Hamilton and let Hamilton DH than I would let him play everyday at 2B.  Hell I was in favor of using him at DH over Ibanez even before Ibanez crapped the bed.  He stands a better chance of having his athleticism let him recover for a bad read or poor 1st step in LF than he ever does at 2B -- not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

Defense is something that I think get's underrated, in part because WAR seems to overvalue it and the anti-stat sect that is already in  love with offense and HRs tends to dismiss it's importance.  The "golden era" Angels teams of the previous decade all did an extremely good job of turning batted balls into outs, they lacked a big time offense but they limited mistakes and suppressed runs, particularly late in games..   I'd hate to see the team move away from defense again, particularly after what we say in 2013 and the impact it had on the pitching.

 

Some good stuff in here.

 

Matt Adams' lack of defensive ability and loppiness pretty much lost game 4 for the Cardinals

[Blarg]

I think that was pretty unfair to rate Green like that. His first step isn't good but it also isn't that bad either. He has a very good glove and fringe average range with a decent arm.

It's his foot work that I find to be poor along with his instincts at 2B.

Don't get me wrong, he's a below average defender there but he has the athletic ability to eventually be average or even above.

But that's not the reason he'll be in the lineup. It's the bat. That kid can flat out hit.

 

He is 27 years old, by now he should have mastered putting one foot in front of the other. Unless they have him in Ballet classes this off season there is no reason to expect that footwork to improve since he has already hit what should be a players peak in athleticism.