Attn: Hiring/Interviewers on AngelsWin - Is a follow up thank you call appropriate?

[mp170.6]

Humble people make better team players and considerate employees.  Arrogant folks are always trouble in the long term.  That's because arrogance breeds a sense of entitlement, as in you owe me ________ because I'm so wonderful. 

[Brandon]

Humility is a good way to sell yourself as not being an a-hole. 

 

There are plenty of ways to sell yourself and not sound like an asshole.

[Brandon]

Humility ≠ Indifference.

 

You're complimenting the organization while implying that it would be an honor for you to work there. When I look for somebody to hire, I'm much more interested in the "thanks so much for the opportunity" person than the "I'm awesome and deserve this position" person.

 

I didn't say it was equal, you wrote, "Whatever you decide..."

 

That is indifference.

 

WHat you look for may not apply to the OP. There are many variables and situations that are dependent on approach.

 

Most companies care about profitability and the bottom line. They want people they know that will succeed, self-motivated, and that they don't have to babysit. An indifferent approach doesn't convey go-getter.

[Brandon]

Humble people make better team players and considerate employees.  Arrogant folks are always trouble in the long term.  That's because arrogance breeds a sense of entitlement, as in you owe me ________ because I'm so wonderful. 

 

Arrogant people are generally independent go-getters, nothing remotely close to entitled.

 

Entitled people are passive and incredibly lazy.

[Taylor]

So arrogance is a good quality to have?

[nate]

You are selling yourself.

 

You have to be confident in your abilities.  Highlight the good.  Explain why you would be good at the position based on the interview.  It is a company you respect and would be honored to have the position, etc.

[Adam]

Personally, I like persistence. I don't think a call is out of the question. You'll likely get voicemail and he likely won't call back, but that's ok. He'll make a note. We get probably 3 out of 10 people we interview to follow up with us, usually by email. Usually, they're the best people anyway. 

[Sully151]

If possible, I might add a quick sentence relating to something that was discussed in the interview in hopes that it triggers the interviewer's memory. Especially if it was a point that you bright up that might set you apart.

I once got a job in a totally unrelated field because I studied theater and clown. The interviewer thought is was interesting and she mentioned how I could bring an "out of the box mentality" to the position. I wrote a quick line about that in my letter.

[Brandon]

So arrogance is a good quality to have?

I didn't even talk about arrogance and corrected someone that used the term.

However, and unrelated, yes. Although confidence and arrogance is a fine line. Passive people think everyone that has confidence is arrogant. Guys like Steve Jobs or Kobe Bryant don't get to being the best without that certain hunger and bravado.....unfortunately this is now being called swag.

[Tank]

Humble people make better team players and considerate employees.  Arrogant folks are always trouble in the long term.  That's because arrogance breeds a sense of entitlement, as in you owe me ________ because I'm so wonderful. 

 

i think "team player" is an important concept here for most positions. you're likely going to be working with others, and you need to show that while you're confidant, you can also put the needs of the team first as you start this new job. 

[Taylor]

i think "team player" is an important concept here for most positions. you're likely going to be working with others, and you need to show that while you're confidant, you can also put the needs of the team first as you start this new job.

Yep. In the early 1900s, American culture shifted from a culture of character, where integrity and consistency are sought after, to a culture of personality, where charisma and gregariousness became the most desirable traits in a potential employee or leader. During the last decade, there has been a large shift back toward the culture of character in employment and leadership.

What's interesting is that some cultures in the world have always embraced a culture of character. Asian countries, for example, don't equate a loud and outwardly-confident personality with potential for success. They're much more interested in team players who can work hard for the benefit of the group and put their egos aside.

If you read leadership and business books these days, many of them stress humility and making personal relationships with your co-workers and employees.

[Taylor]

I didn't even talk about arrogance and corrected someone that used the term.

However, and unrelated, yes. Although confidence and arrogance is a fine line. Passive people think everyone that has confidence is arrogant. Guys like Steve Jobs or Kobe Bryant don't get to being the best without that certain hunger and bravado.....unfortunately this is now being called swag.

Gotcha. I still think it's very possible to be successful without having an outward "bravado." It's also much more appealing the people when you are highly successful but still personable.

Look at a guy like Mike Trout. He's the best player in baseball, and he clearly has confidence in himself-- but when he's interviewed, he never talks about himself and will typically say something like, "Whatever I can do to help the team win." That kind of attitude is much more endearing than, "I'm awesome." Would Trout be better if he exuded more of an outward bravado? I don't think so.

Another example is John Wooden. Wildly successful, widely respected, but was one of the most humble people you'd ever meet.

[Jay]

Another example is John Wooden. Wildly successful, widely respected, but was one of the most humble people you'd ever meet.

 

So save the humility for after you become wildly successful.

[mp170.6]

Years ago in college a professor had us read a study about the costs of employing Arrogant / Narcissistic people. 

 

It was a double blind study evaluating personality types while another group of researchers studied the same people's work performance.  They found that the arrogant employees were more likely to exhibit just about every possible undesirable attribute.  i.e.  stealing, dishonesty, inefficiency, incompetence, customer complaints, playing the EEO card, bouncing from job to job, etc. 

 

They concluded that the Arrogant / Narcissistic employee was $______ more expensive per year.  It's been so long I don't remember the figure but I'm guessing around $5000 in today's dollars.

[Adam]

Arrogance is fine in entrepreneurs and sales people. It does not bode well for support staff or managers.

[Blarg]

You are so right about that. Basically people who have a larger than life self image tend to do well selling but they are unmanageable. Best working independently or for a corporation that can afford to turn them loose and do their thing until they become too much of a liability.

 

In Post Production some of the best salesmen were complete a-holes to the staff and darlings to their clients. They had zero reluctance to throw anyone under a bus to keep a client. It works up until you run out of people to feed the machine, then they go somewhere else with their client list.

[Adam]

I've got 135 clients, all of whom are entrepreneurs with small to medium businesses. I would not hire one of them to work for me as an employee. 

[Tank]

working for an arrogant boss makes for a very difficult work environment.

 

my wife was a school secretary for many years, and one of her principals was such an arrogant guy that he once told her that he thought most of the females on staff had a crush on him.

 

he was a horrible boss, and it took way to long to get him away from that job. he made the work environment so awful. people were constantly looking over their shoulders because he constantly threatened them.

[Brandon]

This whole conversation turned because two people mistook drive, confidence, and self motivation for arrogance.

[Jay]

Seems like all stock brokers are arrogant POS

[Adam]

I don't know any stock brokers. 

 

I don't think the line between confidence/swagger and arrogance is as fine as others believe.

[Jay]

Confidence means believing in your talent and your ability to make decisions.

 

Arrogance means never admitting you made a mistake.

[mp170.6]

You are so right about that. Basically people who have a larger than life self image tend to do well selling but they are unmanageable. Best working independently or for a corporation that can afford to turn them loose and do their thing until they become too much of a liability.

 

I have just as many problems with salespeople working independently.  You can't tell them anything, and because of this, it's only a matter of time before they misrepresent something in the course of a sale and the fall out then becomes my problem.

[Taylor]

This whole conversation turned because two people Brandon mistook drive, confidence, and self motivation humility for arrogance indifference and passivity.

 

[Brandon]

I plenty of people that have swagger and confidence, but are humble and grateful. Hell, one even prays before every meal to say thanks and she would be called arrogant here.

Just to be clear, I didn't box any stereotype. But I wouldn't be passive in a thank you note.