Ferguson Unrest

[mancini79]

http://downtrend.com/71superb/unarmed-white-man-shot-by-police-no-riots-al-sharpton-silent-obama-keeps-golfing/

 

White guy killed in the same fashion as Michael Brown. No protests, rioting, etc.

 

Could you imagine the outrage in Ferguson if the cop is indicted and found guilty.

[mp170.6]

 

When you see it...

 

I see Michelle on the right and Natasha or Malia Ann in the middle.  How did they get locked out?

[arch stanton]

I see Michelle on the right and Natasha or Malia Ann in the middle.  How did they get locked out?

Yeah they do all look alike, don't they?

[Taylor]

Fernando Rodney brings up some good points.

 

I lol'd.

[gotbeer]

Fair or not, this is another example of why so many white Americans stereotype black Americans. It isn't just the rioting - it is the complete refusal to accept responsibility and constantly placing blame on others. And it isn't just a small minority of blacks - my guess is that a substantial number, probably a majority, blame this situation entirely on the white police officer.

That being said, there are plenty of thugs representing other races in this. And as far as a percentage of the population, it is a tiny minority causing the problems. But then again if the black community as a whole placed blame where it is due (on Michael Brown), the rioters wouldn't have a sympathetic (or at least apathetic) community allowing them to get away with what they are doing.

 

Replace white with America, and black with Islam/ISIS.  

[Mark68]

I feel like I have to say something about Ferguson and the events leading up to what happened/is happening there. Most of you know that I lean left. Far to the left, so some may not like what I have to say, but I'm going to say it anyway:

 

This is one incident in a series of incidents that goes back almost four hundred years. This is magnified now with 24-hour news cycles and the proliferation of smartphones with camera functionality. But Micheal Brown, while not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination, did not have to die. Officer Wilson did not have to use lethal force against someone who was the same height, albeit 80 pounds heavier. I'm curious whether the Ferguson PD is issued tasers or other nonlethal means of subduing individuals. If, while Wilson was in his car with Brown standing right outside it, could he not have used a taser?

 

This is, assuming that Wilson's testimony has more than a kernel of truth to it. Frankly, I don't buy it. He had plenty of time to prep for the grand jury, and it would not surprise me in the least that he received some type of coaching or at least advance notice of questions he might be asked, by the district attorney himself. In other words, I believe that DA McCulloch was complicit and should have been removed from the case.

 

As for McCulloch's statement to the press during the non-indictment announcement, didn't it seem to anybody else that the "reasons" the grand jury returned no bill of indictment were excuses that had been created over the 100 days since the incident? I mean, when I've had to come up with excuses for not doing something, I've sounded just like he did. He didn't want an indictment. He wanted a whitewash. Consider the leaks that had been coming out and the governor activating additional National Guard troops. It's like they knew there was going to be negative reaction when the grand jury's decision was released.

 

What happened last night and tonight was not a surprise at all. If a group feels like they are constantly being persecuted, their opportunities stifled, they are going to eventually lash out. It's human nature.

 

Do I condone vandalism and destruction or property? Of course not. In addition to this, Michael Brown's stepfather needed to be nowhere near the protests, and, if he still would have decided to be there, he should have kept his mouth shut. His exhortations to "Burn this shit" as well as the actual vandals (who probably only numbered a dozen or so) did nothing to reverse racial stereotypes.

 

Does this country still have institutionalized racism? Absolutely. Look at the sentencing disparities between, for instance, crack cocaine and powder cocaine. Look at the amount of young men of color that are imprisoned, in a prison population that exceeds that of China.

 

China. A country not known for being tolerant of people having views counter to their government, and not known for respecting human rights.

 

China.

 

If Michael Brown (or Trayvon Martin, or that kid that had a toy gun in Wal-Mart) has taught us anything, it has taught us a couple of things:

 

1) We still are a racist country. We can stop denying this.

2) In most locations, the police have stopped being merely about law enforcement. The police are now a paramilitary organization.

 

This must be changed. Will it?

 

I have my doubts.

[wopphil]

Mark, I don't agree with some of what you said, but you did make some good points. Most significantly, why does law enforcement always have to resort to leathel force when less harmful methods might work. I don't blame the officer here for using his gun, but I have to wonder why law enforcement as a whole doesn't change up their approach. The taser is a great tool.

As for the DA, although I don't pretend to know criminal procedure, I believe the DA generally has a lot of discretion over whether or not to charge someone. Perhaps this DA felt he never should have charged the officer, but did so only to please the masses. In that case, he might have been somewhat relieved there was no indictment, much as a prosecutor might be relieved when someone he has been forced to prosecute (wrongfully) gets acquited.

[wopphil]

As for this being a "racist country," you are being overly harsh. Every group of people walking this earth has their prejudices, and most are far more prejudice than Americans. We are actually a very tolerant, open-minded culture.

[Brandon]

 

 

1) We still are a racist country. We can stop denying this.

 

 

We are a country of stereotypes that are fairly accurate.......hence why the word was created and the meaning of the word. We are not a country of racists, but a country with some racists.

 

People keep throwing around racism and racists incorrectly.

[mancini79]

Looks like Mark has his mind made up before the grand jury decision. That is why the National Guard was called. Not because they knew the outcome (which they didn't), but because people were ready to riot regardless of the decision. There is physical evidence that collaborate with the officer's statement along with other eye witnesses. It's a fact that there was a struggle in the vehicle. It is a fact that after being shot, Brown turned toward the officer and approached him. It is a fact that the fatal shot was to the skull to stop Brown from approaching.

 

What is unknown is why lethal force was used. I believe the officer stated he went for the mace but Brown tried grabbing the officer's gun. That is when there was a struggle with the weapon and Wilson got a shot off.

 

Racism is magnified by the Media. It's what gets ratings and pays the bills.

[NrM]

I feel like I have to say something about Ferguson and the events leading up to what happened/is happening there. Most of you know that I lean left. Far to the left, so some may not like what I have to say, but I'm going to say it anyway:

 

This is one incident in a series of incidents that goes back almost four hundred years. This is magnified now with 24-hour news cycles and the proliferation of smartphones with camera functionality. But Micheal Brown, while not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination, did not have to die. Officer Wilson did not have to use lethal force against someone who was the same height, albeit 80 pounds heavier. I'm curious whether the Ferguson PD is issued tasers or other nonlethal means of subduing individuals. If, while Wilson was in his car with Brown standing right outside it, could he not have used a taser?

 

 

For most tasers there is a minimum distance required for it to be effective to ensure there is enough spread between the two probes.

So no, a taser wouldn't have been useful in that situation.

 

From what I understand, brown was within a couple feet of the officer.

[mancini79]

Protesters in NY are now talking about having a demonstration on the same route as the Thankgiving Day parade to disrupt the parade. At least something positive is coming from all of this.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Saw on FB that now they're gonna do A Day Without Black, like what the Mexicans did a few years back.

insert comment about why we need grant green

[ten ocho recon scout]

We are a country of stereotypes that are fairly accurate.......hence why the word was created and the meaning of the word. We are not a country of racists, but a country with some racists.

People keep throwing around racism and racists incorrectly.

not only that, but i challenge anyone to travel the world and find me the utopia where one group or groups doesnt have the advantage, and rhe orher group doesnt feel disenfranchised....

[InsideThePark]

It's too bad that the African American community didn't protest the chokehold incident in new york instead. That's a case that would have got national support since it was pretty clear who was at fault. The main thing coming out of the Mike Brown protests is a racial divide and thats unfortunate.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Mark, i disagree with a lot of what you said, but you make good arguments instead of just noise. So zero problems with any of your opinions. To me, theyre as valid as any i may have.

This isnt directed at you, but a simple question for everyone following this. If this cop was so trigger happy and racist....why didnt he shoot the other guy who was with brown? Wasnt he also a suspect in the robbery? Wasnt he also jaywalking or whatever? I mean i wasnt there....but i would assume brown did something different than his partner....

Is anyone asking that question?

Because when you do, you can pretty much throw out the 'racist' and 'he was killed for stealing cigars' bullshit.

The cop could be full of shit, and yes was coached on what to say in court. That said, does anyone believe the other side wasnt? As in the witnesses who said the cop shot him in the back. And were the witnesses who backed the cops story to the jury, supposedly black themselves, also coached to lie about what they saw? That would be pretty convenient wouldnt it?

If in fact brown did try and grab his gun, which i dont know happened or not, it is a deadly force situation. The whole event, from contact to the shooting, took some 90 seconds. In a perfect world, time is on your side and you can weigh options. But none of us live in a perfect world. And like it or not, its not this cop, nor any others duty to get their ass kicked and give the benefit of the doubt it will simply be an ass kicking. Its everyones duty, however, to obey laws, is it not? Obviously lawful ones i mean.

And thats the irony here. The protestors want the court to ignore the facts and charge this cop when the evidence doesnt support the fact he committed any crime, but at the same time they want to ignore what the law says about what the officer was in his rights to do.

Or you take the cop out of this story, and exchange him with rhe store owner...would any of this be a news story?....

The lawyer for the family said the step dads plea to burn the city was out of emotion. Ok, fair enough. Id imagine the cop who was in a fight, ahot the guy who hed fought, then watched the guy charge him again (not sure if thats fact, but witnesses back that as well as physical evidence), id imagine he was emotional too

[Tank]

i never have had an issue with people protesting peacefully. in fact, i appreciate their passion to do so, and we know it can have an impact. but i take great issue with protestors who shut down streets and freeways. your right to protest does not trump any of my rights.

 

i don't see any positives in blocking people as they drive. 

[Chimi]

Darren Wilson didn't use a taser because he didn't have a taser.  That's been stated many times already.

[ten ocho recon scout]

It's too bad that the African American community didn't protest the chokehold incident in new york instead. That's a case that would have got national support since it was pretty clear who was at fault. The main thing coming out of the Mike Brown protests is a racial divide and thats unfortunate.

this

Id have to read up on that case, but absolutely agree. The initial reactions (back in august), ok, people are fueled by the rumor mill. But after more and more facts came about about what took place, this is definetely not the hill to die on, so to speak.

[Brandon]

I don't think it's a racial divide since anger comes from cops use of excessive force and the discrepancy of minority arrests and harassment. I think you also see a frustration that things like these happen and with no indicment or consequence, what you essentially have is someone dead with no recourse.

 

I think if there was the racial divide you wouldn't have seen so many white people and other races involved in protests. I also think the initial rioting with his death was off the heels of Trayvon Martin and the perception of inequality with black lives.

[Brandon]

Glad I got in and out of LA today before these protests here. Traffic is always a mess, even worse with the holiday traffic, and now add this....no thanks.

[InsideThePark]

this

Id have to read up on that case, but absolutely agree. The initial reactions (back in august), ok, people are fueled by the rumor mill. But after more and more facts came about about what took place, this is definetely not the hill to die on, so to speak.

Many of the protesters believe what they want to believe. It reminds me of the OJ case when polls showed that a majority of blacks believed he was innocent during the trial. Denial is a powerful thing.

[InsideThePark]

I don't think it's a racial divide since anger comes from cops use of excessive force and the discrepancy of minority arrests and harassment. I think you also see a frustration that things like these happen and with no indicment or consequence, what you essentially have is someone dead with no recourse.

 

I think if there was the racial divide you wouldn't have seen so many white people and other races involved in protests. I also think the initial rioting with his death was off the heels of Trayvon Martin and the perception of inequality with black lives.

Oh I disagree. There's a reason why we see a majority of one race on one side of the issue and the other race on the opposite end. The whole issue revolves around white cops killing black men.

[Brandon]

I think you're going to see that any time different races are involved. I also don't think it's one race on one side and one on another, it's mainly black folks feeling a bunch of constant injustice mixed with a healthy dose of no accountability. I agree they get way out of line and shit is propagated by assholes like Sharpton and Jackson, plus the media (as I'm typing this CNN just called tonights relatively peaceful protests "racially charged").

 

There was also protest and rioting/issues with white on white or I remember us talking about a black on black issue, hell, even cops versus the homeless as mentioned here.

 

It went from the Rodney King shit that was a racial divide to now being more about cops abusing authority. Sure you have some ignorant mooks that think it's racism or kill whitey, but those numbers are small in comparison to those more interested in justice and control over cops......similar to the peaceful types to those that were out of line last night.

 

Things like having a black president and prominent black figures really negated the whole everyone versus blacks, but you're going to have those that think it still exists....these people probably think slavery affects them now or that the system or others are holding them back opposed to their actions. 

[Schildog]

Sarah Koenig should have been the investigator on this case.