Israel vs. Palestine

[floplag]

I'm not reading anymore of this... Flop- you're either out of your mind, or seriously under-educated.

 

Hamas' goal is the elimination of Israel.  Period.  They will never stop.  As jihadi-Muslims will never stop their terror-campaign of world-domination of the Muslim religion.

 

Study some history, for a good offense is sometimes the best defense.  Especially against enemies that lob rockets into your Country and dig tunnels to allow their suicide-bombers to enter.

 

Israel is defending itself, plain and simple.

 

Invasion is not defense, its really that simple to those who dont think Israel is infallible.  Thats not defending Hamas, thats not anti Israel, thats logic.

If you can guarantee me that every casualty, every injury, all this collateral damage we are seeing right now is Hamas, fine, but we both know you cant.

Its hilarious to me how EVERY single time someone disagrees, we are called uneducated.  its laughable.

[Adam]

What's the threat? Tunnels

How do you destroy tunnels? Invade

 

Seems like it stands up to the definition of defense to me

[Tank]

I don't exactly support Hamas, but Israel definitely deserves more condemnation. Every UN nation but the U.S. voted to launch an investigation into Israeli war crimes. Good ol' Obama instead chose to send Israel more genocide funds. ]

You may not be pro-Hamas but you're definitely anti-Israel.

All that money Obama raises at his fundraisers in Hollywood, who do think is writing a lot of those checks?

[floplag]

What's the threat? Tunnels

How do you destroy tunnels? Invade

 

Seems like it stands up to the definition of defense to me

 

pretty sure they can be plugged, trapped, or any number of other things from the Israeli side without invading to plug the source.. you really think they would ever find them all without literally taking over all of Gaza? 

[Blarg]

They would not find those in progress but not completed. Israel is doing what is in their best interest to eliminate the source of their problems which is Hamas. In doing so they are doing what Gaza and the Palestinians do not have the willpower to do and that is rid the region of radicals that impede any peace process.

[nate]

What's the threat? Tunnels

How do you destroy tunnels? Invade

 

Seems like it stands up to the definition of defense to me

 

Poppycock!

[floplag]

They would not find those in progress but not completed. Israel is doing what is in their best interest to eliminate the source of their problems which is Hamas. In doing so they are doing what Gaza and the Palestinians do not have the willpower to do and that is rid the region of radicals that impede any peace process.

 

How exactly?  Investigating every hole in Gaza?

Most of these are hidden, how can they possibly expect to find them all short of leveling the place?

Finding them in Israel,, i have no issues with them dropping whatever they want into that hole or sending people thru them to plug them up etc.. but expecting to be able to stop a network of tunnels by finding the source is ludicrous unless you are prepared to flatten the place. 

Eliminating Hamas is fine, eliminating 10X as many people who are not Hamas, is not.   

[Tank]

NBC news tonight reported that Israel has finished destroying all of the tunnels and has withdrawn its troops.

[InsideThePark]

We'll see if the ceasefire holds up so they can get back to negotiating. Here's what needs to eventually happen if all sides want any chance at peace:

1. Demilitarize Hamas

2. Lift the siege

3. Shrink Hamas' role within the Palestinian unity.

4. Finally come up with a two state solution.

Obviously this is all much easier said than done but the Palestinian goal should be to go back to the 1967 borders, and not the silly ideology of destroying Israel. At the same time, Israel needs to show that they're willing to reward the Palestinians for their peace efforts. It's pretty clear that they didn't do enough when they were working with the PLO some odd years ago.

[mtangelsfan]

I think those are salient points.  I just don't see Hamas losing power.  The entire culture needs to change.  

[Taylor]

I'm not reading anymore of this... Flop- you're either out of your mind, or seriously under-educated.

 

Hamas' goal is the elimination of Israel.  Period.  They will never stop.  As jihadi-Muslims will never stop their terror-campaign of world-domination of the Muslim religion.

 

Study some history, for a good offense is sometimes the best defense.  Especially against enemies that lob rockets into your Country and dig tunnels to allow their suicide-bombers to enter.

 

Israel is defending itself, plain and simple.

 

Agreed. However, you can't ignore how Israel has occupied territories that don't belong to them and treated the Palestinians who live there like second-class citizens. These are people who have no ties to Hamas. They're just trying to live their lives in the place where they've always lived. Many of them are Christians.

 

Hamas is way worse than Israel. But it's understandable why there isn't much sympathy for Israel in the region.

[nate]

The fact that when Arafat went out of power, the Palestinians voted Hamas, a known terrorist organization into power, tells you all you need to know.

[InsideThePark]

It also tells you that Israel wasn't rewarding the Palestinians enough for their peace efforts.

The palestinian groups are unifying and will be holding elections within the next several months I believe. I don't see Hamas being the group with the most power this time around but we'll see.

[floplag]

I'm not going to get into whether or not Israel is rewarding anyone for peace effort, i don't think that's something they need to do, peace takes both parties to want it and it not what im criticizing them for anyway.

The one thing i cannot abide from them is very simple... the umbrella of "defense", does not extend to invasion or the killing an destruction of those who are not part of that equation.  I don't know how much simpler this can be said.. and yet i am called insane for thinking that the same rights Israel wants should be extended to those other peoples as well?  really?

I have ZERO issue with them defending themselves, none, they have every right to do so, but going into Gaza with tanks, attacking everyone there whether they are Hamas or not goes way outside the limits of defense.   I dont understand how this can be defended unless you have a personal attachment or agenda to the situation.

How many time in history has conflict been started or escalated in the name of defense gone overboard? 

 

[nate]

I think Israel deserves recognition for the fact that they haven't leveled Gaza.  There have been some awful and unfortunate collateral damages in these incursions however considering what they have faced it is amazing they haven't just done some good old fashion American "freedom."

[arch stanton]

I'm not going to get into whether or not Israel is rewarding anyone for peace effort, i don't think that's something they need to do, peace takes both parties to want it and it not what im criticizing them for anyway.

The one thing i cannot abide from them is very simple... the umbrella of "defense", does not extend to invasion or the killing an destruction of those who are not part of that equation.  I don't know how much simpler this can be said.. and yet i am called insane for thinking that the same rights Israel wants should be extended to those other peoples as well?  really?

I have ZERO issue with them defending themselves, none, they have every right to do so, but going into Gaza with tanks, attacking everyone there whether they are Hamas or not goes way outside the limits of defense.   I dont understand how this can be defended unless you have a personal attachment or agenda to the situation.

How many time in history has conflict been started or escalated in the name of defense gone overboard? 

 

I think you're caught up on the idea of civilian casualties. They've happened in every conflict known to history. Hamas is not a uniformed military that is separated from the general population. Never have been. Never will be. The opportunity to confront them without civilian intermingling does not exist.

[floplag]

I think you're caught up on the idea of civilian casualties. They've happened in every conflict known to history. Hamas is not a uniformed military that is separated from the general population. Never have been. Never will be. The opportunity to confront them without civilian intermingling does not exist.

 

You are right, i am caught up with collateral damage, and why arent you? 

Why is this acceptable for Israel when it isn't for virtually any other entity anywhere?

To use your words "opportunity to confront them", does this sounds like a defensive term to you?

 

[mtangelsfan]

You are right, i am caught up with collateral damage, and why arent you? 

Why is this acceptable for Israel when it isn't for virtually any other entity anywhere?

To use your words "opportunity to confront them", does this sounds like a defensive term to you?

 

 

Are you kidding?  Do you know how many civilians have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan?  Crap, our drones pretty much take out civilians every time they are deployed. 

[Adam]

Are you kidding?  Do you know how many civilians have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan?  Crap, our drones pretty much take out civilians every time they are deployed. 

 

[mtangelsfan]

Exactly Adam.  At least the U.S. didn't go competely hypocritical and vote to condemn Israel's actions.  I laugh at those countries knowing what they would do if another entity was lobbing rockets into their country on a daily basis.

[arch stanton]

You are right, i am caught up with collateral damage, and why arent you? 

Why is this acceptable for Israel when it isn't for virtually any other entity anywhere?

To use your words "opportunity to confront them", does this sounds like a defensive term to you?

 

That's why I said it's happened in every conflict ever. If Hamas won't separate itself from the civilians then how do you determine who is or isn't? And how do we determine whether these "civilians" are even innocent? The Palestinian people are the ones who can stop their own slaughter by not being enablers through their own silence and inaction.

[Adam]

Yeah, when you look at the situation as a whole, of course both sides have some issues, faults and deserve criticism. When you break it down into specific activities and situations, Israel should be applauded for how they conduct themselves in wartime. 

[TobiasFunke]

She's obviously fighting an Italian

[mtangelsfan]

That is a she?

[sneaky_flute]

I like BBWs.