Your ideas on how to fix the K-12 education system

[happybat4]

Might be biased, but here is my list as an educator

 

1. Get rid of the salary scale. Reward good teachers! All teachers should not be paid the same

 

2. Quit worrying about every kid going to college. We do so much for the bottom 5% of students to make sure they graduate. Who cares? Let them develop a skill and a trade. They do not need to know calculus

 

3. Leave kids behind! If they don't want to do school work, let them flip burgers. Offer night school to adults who WANT it.

 

4. I do believe there needs to be standardized testing, but lets limit it a bit. We have state tests, ACT, SAT, SAT 2, AP tests, Graduation tests etc. Lets limit the tests. I can have 95% of my AP students pass the AP tests, but if they do not do well on the state tests, why should it matter?

 

5. Make it easier to fire bad teachers

 

6. Put less importance on athletics. Other countries laugh at the athletic departments we have and the focus we have on athletics.I do believe athletics have an importance, but there is to much focus there.

 

7. Start school later. All the science *PROVES* that kids function better when they start later. Despite this we still force them to be at school at 7:30. How many people have jobs that start at 7:30? This does not happen because of athletics.

[halomatt]

I agree with adam about elimating public education altogether.  However I also know that is never going to happen.  Here are a few thoughts I have had.

 

1.  Stop treating every student as though they learn the same way at the same pace.  I think a track system would work much better.  This assembly line thought process of education might have been great at the height of the industrial revolution, but not anymore.

 

2.  Find a way to reward good teachers and get rid of poor ones.  This should be done through means other than standardized tests which are, to me, a waste of time.

 

3.  Stop the thought process that every kid should go to college.  Some of the best jobs out there pay wise don't require a college degree but they do require learning a craft or skill.  If a kid after a couple years of high school shows an afinity for plumbing, welding or such they should have the opportunity to head that direction.

 

4.  Localize, localize, localize.  The more control that is kept close they more bang for your buck you get.  Also, what works in the suburbs may not work in rural areas or city areas.

 

5.  Whatever direction they take, stick with it.  Our kids have been guinea pigs for almost 40 years with all the different things that have been thrown at them.

 

6.  Any cuts that come into play should start at the top with administators.  Teachers should be the last in line for cuts.

I agree with every one of these.  It's amazing how effin' stupid the Department of Education is when it comes to a college education.  I can estimate that approximately 48% of my current students are not college material.  It's only eighth grade and they can grow up a lot between now and 11th grade, but good Lord, they are lazy! We really should give them a test in ninth or tenth grade and based on their aptitude for college, send them or get them training in a trade of some sort.  They would be far more likely to become productive members of society if they developed a marketable skill than coming out of high school with a misguided notion that in order to be "worth" anything, they have to attend a college for which they are poorly suited.  We set these kids up to fail from an early age and it's sad. 

[nate]

MT, your first point is addressed by common core.  The thing you have lobbied against.  The first thing that Common Core addresses is that the answer is more important then the path to it.  They recognize that kids learn in different ways.

 

Anyway if we really wanted to improve our system we would study the Japanese way of education.  The US is so far behind in education it is embarrassing.

 

They also should drop all of the affirmative action and no child left behind shit.

 

Finally, there should be a lot more time spent on arithmetic, science and literature than there currently is.  Probably add an hour and a half to each school day.

[mtangelsfan]

MT, your first point is addressed by common core.  The thing you have lobbied against.  The first thing that Common Core addresses is that the answer is more important then the path to it.  They recognize that kids learn in different ways.

 

Anyway if we really wanted to improve our system we would study the Japanese way of education.  The US is so far behind in education it is embarrassing.

 

They also should drop all of the affirmative action and no child left behind shit.

 

Finally, there should be a lot more time spent on arithmetic, science and literature than there currently is.  Probably add an hour and a half to each school day.

 

Common Core still puts standards on kids across the board based upon grade levels and age.  That is what I don't agree with.  Also, what I know most about common core is what has been applied so far and that is not at all in alignment with your description of it.  It is deeply concerned with how the child gets to the answer, so much that they want every kid to come by it in a certain way.

[mp170.6]

How does everyone feel about AP/IB/Honors classes? 

 

Do the classes help kids at all?  It seems like they give parents a false sense of assurance that their kid is great and wonderful and smart because somehow, magical things happen in those classes.  But in reality, their kids turn out insecure and arrogant and bully (or get bullied by) other students not like them. 

 

When I was at CSUF, the students who relied on AP credit instead of taking Calculus and Stats at the college level had a terrible time with the 300 and 400-level Econ classes because a few years had elapsed since they last practiced their math skills.  I remember this one guy so deficient in math, they actually revoked his AP credits and said he needed to take the necessary classes at Fullerton College to catch up.   Nobody ever saw him again. 

[Jason]

Why do they still give money to schools for attendance? I think that if you only have the kids there that want to be there then it will be a better learning environment for those kids. It seems silly to make a kid go to school that has no intent on learning anything and will only cause distractions and problems.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Angels N Skins

[nate]

How does everyone feel about AP/IB/Honors classes? 

 

Do the classes help kids at all?  It seems like they give parents a false sense of assurance that their kid is great and wonderful and smart because somehow, magical things happen in those classes.  But in reality, their kids turn out insecure and arrogant and bully (or get bullied by) other students not like them. 

 

When I was at CSUF, the students who relied on AP credit instead of taking Calculus and Stats at the college level had a terrible time with the 300 and 400-level Econ classes because a few years had elapsed since they last practiced their math skills.  I remember this one guy so deficient in math, they actually revoked his AP credits and said he needed to take the necessary classes at Fullerton College to catch up.   Nobody ever saw him again. 

 

Gifted students should receive more attention from schools.  AP classes are very important.

 

Unfortunately most schools do it the other way.  They ignore the gifted students and focus on the failing ones.

[halobob]

How does everyone feel about AP/IB/Honors classes? 

 

Do the classes help kids at all?  It seems like they give parents a false sense of assurance that their kid is great and wonderful and smart because somehow, magical things happen in those classes.  But in reality, their kids turn out insecure and arrogant and bully (or get bullied by) other students not like them. 

 

When I was at CSUF, the students who relied on AP credit instead of taking Calculus and Stats at the college level had a terrible time with the 300 and 400-level Econ classes because a few years had elapsed since they last practiced their math skills.  I remember this one guy so deficient in math, they actually revoked his AP credits and said he needed to take the necessary classes at Fullerton College to catch up.   Nobody ever saw him again. 

These classes help if your kid actually belongs in one of those classes.  It may even help if your kid doesn't belong as being around the smarter kids should help the ones who are not as smart as they will learn their work habits, etc.  Now turning those scores in for college is another story.  I only turned in my AP Lit/Comp and any History scores to get out of those prerec's since I wasn't going to major in anything that involved those subjects.  I didn't turn in Physics, Bio, or Calc and retook those courses which resulted in refreshing my memory on the subjects.  Not to mention that these classes were essentially cake walks for me since I had already seen the material in previous years which allowed me to focus more attention on my other classes.  

[halobob]

I would like to see a big de-emphasis on math in high school in certain instances. There are kids who simply cannot grasp or master complex mathematical concepts. Not because they are lazy or unintelligent but because their brains are not wired for it. Forcing them to take classes in which they cannot succeed is a waste of time. Besides, the only math really used in real life and in most professions is all learned by 3rd grade.

 

This of course is impossible with the whole cookie cutter, standardized shit. A tailored plan for each student can never be achieved in public school.

The reason kids struggle so much in math in high school is because they didn't learn the basic arithmetic needed to do simple algebra.  MORE MATH MORE MATH AND MORE MATH!

[Tank]

Why do they still give money to schools for attendance? I think that if you only have the kids there that want to be there then it will be a better learning environment for those kids. It seems silly to make a kid go to school that has no intent on learning anything and will only cause distractions and problems.

 

if the alternative is to have them stay at home and just hang out with others who aren't motivated, i'd rather have them at school. think of the carnage THAT would potentially cause. and a shot in the dark here, but i'm guessing most of these kids are probably not ready to enter the work force. that spells a TON of trouble.

 

some kids are late bloomers. you have to give them that chance at self-discovery, even if it's not the majority of kids in this situation.

 

i wish all high schools would teach more life skills classes, like how to grocery shop, maintain a bank account, read food labels, fill out a job application, etc. Also, have those kids take aptitude tests to see where their interests really lie and start sending them down that path. we need as many mechanics as we do business people.

[mp170.6]

I would like to see a big de-emphasis on math in high school in certain instances. There are kids who simply cannot grasp or master complex mathematical concepts. Not because they are lazy or unintelligent but because their brains are not wired for it. Forcing them to take classes in which they cannot succeed is a waste of time. Besides, the only math really used in real life and in most professions is all learned by 3rd grade.

 

This of course is impossible with the whole cookie cutter, standardized shit. A tailored plan for each student can never be achieved in public school.

 

I believe the problem has to do with junior high and high school math teachers being unqualified to teach.  What's totally absurd is that a math degree is not required to teach Calculus in a high school, but at a community college or university, you need an M.S. or Ph.D. in math to teach the exact same material. 

 

Fancy degrees don't make somebody an effective teacher, but having the degrees establishes basic competency.  And if you doubt that K-12 teachers are a problem, check your local community college schedule and count the number of remedial math classes offered -- for the fall semester Fullerton College has 102 classes and Cypress College has 82.  Those classrooms have about forty seats as I remember, so between the two schools you have 7000+ students every semester who are deficient in math.

 

Check out this gem offered by Fullerton College.  This appears to be 4th or 5th grade math.  Sacramento, we have a problem. 

 

MATH 007 F -- 3 Units

Essentials of Basic Math

This course is a review of the fundamentals of arithmetic, including whole

number arithmetic, fractions, decimals, percent, estimation, and solving applied

problems.

• PASS/NO PASS ONLY

• Non-degree credit

[Hollyw00d]

How does everyone feel about AP/IB/Honors classes? 

 

Do the classes help kids at all?  It seems like they give parents a false sense of assurance that their kid is great and wonderful and smart because somehow, magical things happen in those classes.  But in reality, their kids turn out insecure and arrogant and bully (or get bullied by) other students not like them. 

 

.

I disagree with all of that.

[Hollyw00d]

The reason kids struggle so much in math in high school is because they didn't learn the basic arithmetic needed to do simple algebra.  MORE MATH MORE MATH AND MORE MATH!

If they didn't learn basic arithmetic, that is on the student. Unless they went to an elementary school where the teacher did basically nothing. Those skills are taught and reinforced all the way from 2nd to 7-8th grade, depending on how advanced the student is.

Our schools need more math and science, and less drama and football.

[ABC]

Schools are f'd, especially in poor areas. But It all comes down to the parents. We have to import people with STEM education and skills from poor countries. It's sad. Look at their school system yet they produce the talent needed in today's world. It's because home life is centered around the child getting a solid education. The lengths that some Asian countries go to is extreme and terrible on children but there can be a medium between their ways and 'murica's.

[mp170.6]

I disagree with all of that.

 

Tell us why.  My own experiences may not be as common as I think. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

How does everyone feel about AP/IB/Honors classes? 

 

My stepdaughter was in the International Baccalaureate Program. She just graduated with eight consecutive semesters on the dean's list at the University of Nevada Reno with a Bachelor of Science in Veterinary Science, not an easy course of study.

 

I wish there had been something like it when I was in school. As it was, I was stuck in one of the worst high schools in Florida with a curriculum that largely did not challenge me, nor did it prepare me for the college years that followed. I coasted through high school with a 3.9 GPA on a 4.0 scale. When college coursework hit I did not have the background to handle a lot of the stuff that was thrown at me. Had IB and magnet schools been available then my career path would have been far different IMO, and I wouldn't have had to return to college in my late 30s to get a marketable skill.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I had AP classes all 4 years in high school but didn't go the IB route.  Most of the people in the AP classes were in the IB program and they were pretty down to earth albeit they seemed shy and standoffish to the kids who didn't know them or have classes with them.  While I haven't kept in touch with many of them directly my friends who are on facebook have told me that some of them seem to be doing pretty well in life - multiple lawyers, some doctors and the list goes on.  AP classes are great because by passing the tests you can avoid taking some of the lower level college courses that are required for everyone.  My girlfriend's niece will graduate in 2015 from high school and she already has quite a few credits out of the way which will save time and money.

 

I'm not a teacher and I've been out of the public system for almost 15 years now but when a small percentage of the kids get more of the money something isn't quite right.  The federal rules say you have to provide certain services and I get that but there's stories of districts cutting transportation for 90% of their students in order to provide transportation to those with disabilities.  I know multiple teachers and one worked with disabled children who had parents who always wanted more one on one time and some who even sued the districts for more time and resources for their child.  Just to clarify I'm not blaming anyone but putting the majority at a disadvantage for the minority never really works out.  That said there's little or no correlation between money spent per pupil and test results so I can see someone arguing against the spending gap.

 

I think no child left behind failed and teachers shouldn't have to deal with unruly kids who disrupt and hold up the rest of the class.  Again all your doing is helping the minority at the expense of the majority.  Stop treating kids like they're all winners because that isn't how the real world works.  Ultimately though as others have mentioned it all starts at home.  Other countries put more emphasis on education and plenty of immigrants come here and have children who thrive in the US system.  The greatest teacher on the planet can't help kids who go home and don't have parents who take an interest in their education.  I think ultimately the biggest problem education faces is the biggest problem we face as a country - not enough people taking responsibility for their actions and kids are the responsibility of parents first and foremost and not the schools.   

[happybat4]

High school AP classes are much more difficult then the college classes.

[floplag]

stop dumbing it down, stop acting like all students are equal when they are not.

Its a matter of effort.. you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink.... if a student chooses to now give a damn that on them.. this funny thing called responsibility. 
we have turend school into the equivalent of little league participation awards... that isnt fair to anyone.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

One thing we run into, and I'm sure that you do in many areas of California, is that the schools are filled with native Spanish speakers. Much of the time that should be spent on teaching core subjects is spent on teaching remedial English.

[Tank]

starting in high school, there should be classes that offer kids a chance to pursue non-academic careers, like being a mechanic, truck driver, landscaper, etc., noble work the benefits all of us. not everyone is cut out to sit in a classroom, and there's nothing wrong with that. some type of trade school for kids who are inclined to go that route would be a very helpful alternative to traditional colleges and universities. there are programs out there now, but they often have a look of being some kind of cheap alternative for those who don't know where to turn. polish them up and push them harder. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

starting in high school, there should be classes that offer kids a chance to pursue non-academic careers, like being a mechanic, truck driver, landscaper, etc., noble work the benefits all of us. not everyone is cut out to sit in a classroom, and there's nothing wrong with that. some type of trade school for kids who are inclined to go that route would be a very helpful alternative to traditional colleges and universities. there are programs out there now, but they often have a look of being some kind of cheap alternative for those who don't know where to turn. polish them up and push them harder. 

 

One of the few innovative things my school district did, while it was failing to prepare us for college, was to set up technical training programs. Technical High School in Jacksonville was established for just that purpose. They had all the trappings of a regular high school (even a football team), but the main object was to prepare students for careers immediately after graduation. Las Vegas has a similar school. One of my employees' sons goes there.

[arch stanton]

Trade prep high schools can only get so big before the big trade school lobby goes after them.