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Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects
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Cespedes
Posted 2013-02-09 9:33 PM (#1937429 - in reply to #1937427)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects


Arkansas Travelers

Posts: 637

Tyler - 2013-02-09 9:31 PM

All the time.


Where do you believe the Angels truly rank than in terms of farm system.
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Tyler
Posted 2013-02-09 9:35 PM (#1937430 - in reply to #1937429)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects


Hall of Fame

Posts: 6136

Near the bottom still lol
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Angelsjunky
Posted 2013-02-09 9:51 PM (#1937432 - in reply to #1937423)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



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Location: Limbo

Tyler - 2013-02-10 12:24 AM
Angelsjunky - 2013-02-08 1:46 PM Amateur Angels fan site analysts: "There's lot of talent in the Angels farm system, rumors of it being bad are overblown." Every single unbiased professional analyst: "The Angels farm system sucks." Hmm...who to believe?
All these other sites do is rank their most ml ready prospects. They never go out on a limb and find the 'sleepers'.

Sure, but it evens out. I imagine that John Sickels or Kevin Goldstein look equally deep into every farm system. It isn't like they're noticing the sleepers for other teams and not the Angels.

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Tyler
Posted 2013-02-09 10:21 PM (#1937441 - in reply to #1935745)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects


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Posts: 6136

I imagine they have more projects then general team prospect rankings.
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YouthofToday
Posted 2013-02-10 12:19 AM (#1937490 - in reply to #1937423)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



Hall of Fame

Posts: 5831

Location: Redondo Beach, Calif.

Tyler - 2013-02-09 9:24 PM
Angelsjunky - 2013-02-08 1:46 PM Amateur Angels fan site analysts: "There's lot of talent in the Angels farm system, rumors of it being bad are overblown." Every single unbiased professional analyst: "The Angels farm system sucks." Hmm...who to believe?
All these other sites do is rank their most ml ready prospects. They never go out on a limb and find the 'sleepers'.

 Yes, let's shoot the messenger rather than face reality. All other sites? Really? Not one identifies sleepers in any organization? Never go on a limb? C'mon man. 

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ScottyAllenLAAI
Posted 2013-02-10 12:37 AM (#1937493 - in reply to #1935745)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



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Posts: 1875

Location: California
I think AJ is actually insinuating into a concept that's actually quite a big deal when we're talking about prospects. That is, guys lie Godlstein, Mayo and Sickels, they don't specifically go out of their way to ignore certain systems. But when you're covering 30 teams, lots of times the report you see that is given on a player is a scout's perspective of one game he saw and and the figure head making a judgement based off stats and extremely limited exposure.

I've said it time and again, not because it's convenient for me, but the fact of the matter is, the best scouting reports you'll find on the internet are from actual fans. Will there be bias? absolutely, but if you can find a source that isn't a complete homer, you'll be golden. With the exception of Baseball Prospects (and even they had a few key points wrong), I've seen no sources that tell the full story of prospects the way my own site (MWAH) and Angelswin has. The fact that we are Angels fans helps in that we've seen these guys more than anyone else out there, but also hurts in that our evaluations can be skewed.

But I say with 100% confidence, if I'm scouting a player from another system, I'll look at more local sources before passing judgement on the prospect himself. Given that I have a background in scouting, I prefer to watch a player myself, but that's not always possible, and sometimes I only see so much on MiLB broadcasts.
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OTT
Posted 2013-02-10 12:53 AM (#1937498 - in reply to #1937493)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



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Posts: 2314

ScottyAllenLAAI - 2013-02-10 12:37 AM

I think AJ is actually insinuating into a concept that's actually quite a big deal when we're talking about prospects. That is, guys lie Godlstein, Mayo and Sickels, they don't specifically go out of their way to ignore certain systems. But when you're covering 30 teams, lots of times the report you see that is given on a player is a scout's perspective of one game he saw and and the figure head making a judgement based off stats and extremely limited exposure.

I've said it time and again, not because it's convenient for me, but the fact of the matter is, the best scouting reports you'll find on the internet are from actual fans. Will there be bias? absolutely, but if you can find a source that isn't a complete homer, you'll be golden. With the exception of Baseball Prospects (and even they had a few key points wrong), I've seen no sources that tell the full story of prospects the way my own site (MWAH) and Angelswin has. The fact that we are Angels fans helps in that we've seen these guys more than anyone else out there, but also hurts in that our evaluations can be skewed.

But I say with 100% confidence, if I'm scouting a player from another system, I'll look at more local sources before passing judgement on the prospect himself. Given that I have a background in scouting, I prefer to watch a player myself, but that's not always possible, and sometimes I only see so much on MiLB broadcasts.


But nobody has beef with the actual scouting reports. I'd bet that whatever scouting reports angels fans have will probably approximate the reports collected by these publications. What people seem to have a problem with is the rankings and the Angels being near the bottom. But only the publications are in a position where they can aggregate all the info and make these determinations. Someone who mainly follows the angels doesn't have the same access to compare across systems - which is not really a useful endeavor anyways, but hey its sports and all about competition
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dochalo
Posted 2013-02-10 1:01 AM (#1937500 - in reply to #1935745)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects


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It seems the potential or upside of the middle of the pack guys gets lost in the national publications. As a whole, the system is likely weaker than others, but I think what some are getting at is that the perception could change much quicker than expected and a solid core of potential major league contributors will likely emanate from the current group. Which isn't ideal but at least not a collection of scrubs and career minor leaguers that is being insinuated.
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kbrents21
Posted 2013-02-10 2:56 AM (#1937505 - in reply to #1937427)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects


Orem Owlz

Posts: 205

Our farm sucks but we have brought up a few guys over the last two years that are really working out. I mean we had what the best like 5 years ago and our 2 best cant miss guys Wood and Dallas did what? We have a good mix of young and Vet players right now that look good. If we had a good farm right now they would be blocked or trade bait. I think the thing we really need is young pitching down there. I know we can stack the farm and trade wells for it....lol. If u look our draft picks they are all late because of Arte spending money I rather have the guys we do then a good farm. We sign top FA's and we have a good record so we draft late rounds and deep in them. catch 22
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ScottyAllenLAAI
Posted 2013-02-10 11:10 AM (#1937551 - in reply to #1935745)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



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Posts: 1875

Location: California
OTT- You're right about the ranking from major publications. I'm certainly in no position to say the noels are better or worse than other systems because my focus is solely on the Angels. From time to time I'll watch some of the Padres, Cards and Rays too, but I don't invest a ton in them. I will say this as far as national publications go, they're becoming increasingly LESS bias than before. All the way up to probably three years ago, every Yankees and Red Sox prospect was the best in the world, couldn't be beat. Keith Law, Baseball America and Jon Mayo were the worst with this. Sickels and Prospectus have always been more fair. And this isn't about the ranking, this is about grading prospects. Way too many over-hyped, over-graded East Coast prospects. But we've finally seen a shift, and I think this is because more folks are paying attention and the lrger publications understand they won't be taken seriously anymore if they kept it up.
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YouthofToday
Posted 2013-02-10 11:20 AM (#1937554 - in reply to #1937500)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



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Location: Redondo Beach, Calif.

[QUOTE]dochalo - 2013-02-10 1:01 AM It seems the potential or upside of the middle of the pack guys gets lost in the national publications. As a whole, the system is likely weaker than others, but I think what some are getting at is that the perception could change much quicker than expected and a solid core of potential major league contributors will likely emanate from the current group. Which isn't ideal but at least not a collection of scrubs and career minor leaguers that is being insinuated.

Good points. However, every system has middle of the pack guys in their farm system who might develop. I agree sites like AW know more about them that national publications.

That said, many Angels sites have a track record of over hyping our prospects. Reckling was floated by many as a near-lock as a future middle of the rotation guy.

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ScottyAllenLAAI
Posted 2013-02-10 11:36 AM (#1937560 - in reply to #1935745)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



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Posts: 1875

Location: California
Though I never hyped him much, to be fair, the degradation of Reckling's stuff and mechanics most certainly led to his downfall as a prospect. When he was in Cedar Rapids and Arkansas, I saw his fastball sitting 91-92, his curve was wicked and he threw them both for a strike. He was basically Nick Maronde, but with a better off speed pitch and more deception. Something weird happened with his mechanics though and he lost 2-3 ticks on his fastball and his curve became too loopy and just lost command of everything. I consider it similar to what happened with Scott Kazmir.

So sites weren't necessarily wrong to say Reckling would be a mid-rotation type (though I said #4 starter, didn't think his fastball played up as well as his curve and change). Circumstances changed though, in a manner which no one could've predicted.
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dochalo
Posted 2013-02-10 11:47 AM (#1937564 - in reply to #1937554)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects


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Posts: 7484

YouthofToday - 2013-02-10 11:20 AM

[QUOTE]dochalo - 2013-02-10 1:01 AM It seems the potential or upside of the middle of the pack guys gets lost in the national publications. As a whole, the system is likely weaker than others, but I think what some are getting at is that the perception could change much quicker than expected and a solid core of potential major league contributors will likely emanate from the current group. Which isn't ideal but at least not a collection of scrubs and career minor leaguers that is being insinuated.

Good points. However, every system has middle of the pack guys in their farm system who might develop. I agree sites like AW know more about them that national publications.

That said, many Angels sites have a track record of over hyping our prospects. Reckling was floated by many as a near-lock as a future middle of the rotation guy.



Reckling was top five by ba even when the halos system was considered good. Which kind of lends to the point.

Look at what the system produced when it was considered very good.
One guy in particular that is one of the best players in the league, and one upper echelon pitcher that we were able to get because of money issues.

A few guys that have been occasionally good but mostly average, and the rest just depth

Now that the system is poor, my guess is that over the next 5 yrs, we get similar results sans the best player in baseball.

I'm far from an expert but have been following pretty closely for the last 5-7 years. Our middle of the pack guys are better now than they were when we were considered good. It's the upper part of the system that gets us the low ranking. Not saying we don't deserve it, but in 3 yrs, we will be pleasantly surprised at how many of these guys become above replacement to decent major leaguers.
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YouthofToday
Posted 2013-02-10 12:05 PM (#1937575 - in reply to #1935745)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



Hall of Fame

Posts: 5831

Location: Redondo Beach, Calif.
I think we can all agree on your last point. Preferably with the Angels or, if on another team, we have a few more trophies outside the team store.
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ScottyAllenLAAI
Posted 2013-02-10 1:33 PM (#1937625 - in reply to #1935745)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects



All-Star

Posts: 1875

Location: California
I agree with YOT, your (dochalo) last point was pretty spot on. We do have some replacement level or better talent in the system. Cowart, Cron, Lindsey, Yarbrough, Stamets, Calhoun, Witherspoon, Grichuk. That's a lot of future major leaguers, be it in a reserve role or otherwise. Then there's guys who aren't appearing in the list but will fulfill a role soon enough (Richards and Conger). And then we have a certain amount of guys who could go either direction (Hinkle, Carlos Ramirez and Zach Wright come to mind).

I don't think our system will be considerably stronger in the next five years. I think this will be a bottom ranked system for the foreseeable future, however I do think that the Angels have as many future major leaguers in their system as most other teams.
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Tyler
Posted 2013-02-10 1:34 PM (#1937626 - in reply to #1937490)
Subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus: Angels Top 10 Prospects


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Posts: 6136

YouthofToday - 2013-02-10 12:19 AM

Tyler - 2013-02-09 9:24 PM
Angelsjunky - 2013-02-08 1:46 PM Amateur Angels fan site analysts: "There's lot of talent in the Angels farm system, rumors of it being bad are overblown." Every single unbiased professional analyst: "The Angels farm system sucks." Hmm...who to believe?
All these other sites do is rank their most ml ready prospects. They never go out on a limb and find the 'sleepers'.

 Yes, let's shoot the messenger rather than face reality. All other sites? Really? Not one identifies sleepers in any organization? Never go on a limb? C'mon man. 



Bang bang
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