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Big League Angels
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| Angel Oracle - 2012-11-28 2:32 PM
Not that it's in synch with the thread, but who should get the most blame for 3 straight post-seasonless seasons?
Arte?
Reagins?
Scioscia?
Coaches?
Underachieving players?
All of the above?
With this payroll, THREE straight post-seasonless seasons is simply unacceptable.
I doubt anyone here has the insider information necessary to adequately answer this. |
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Hall of Fame
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| Chuck - 2012-11-28 2:47 PM BS that Arte is even talked about in this discussion? He's entrusted his GMs to get the right players, paying top dollar and yet he's overrated? Laughable. Absolutely correct, Chuck! He has provided his GM's with the ability to acquire top talent, and he has provided the tools for his field manager and coaching staff to make the best use of that full toolbox. The onus is on the GM, the FM and his coaches, and those underperforming highly paid players. Arte has done his part - more than his part. It is time that those entrusted by him to meet their responsibilities and fulfill their expectations.
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All-Star
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Location: Orange County | deepdrive - 2012-11-28 6:25 PM
Angel Oracle - 2012-11-28 2:32 PM
Not that it's in synch with the thread, but who should get the most blame for 3 straight post-seasonless seasons?
Arte?
Reagins?
Scioscia?
Coaches?
Underachieving players?
All of the above?
With this payroll, THREE straight post-seasonless seasons is simply unacceptable.
I doubt anyone here has the insider information necessary to adequately answer this.
Wells, suprise suprise, is a big factor. One player isnt enough to kill a season, but thinking he could replace naps AND be the star offensive player was a big part. The bullpen being the other factor (player wise). So in that we can blame the front office (of which sosh is included).
Morales was a big blow, as was the ripple effect (depth wise) of losing adenhart. Kaz collapsing....overvaluing wood and not replacing figgens....
I also think sosh is a factor on the field. He's not reaponsible for individuals failing, but some of his decisions are head scratchers to say the least. I also get the feeling theirs a generation gap between his managing style and the younger players may not be the best mix.
Lastly, dont undervalue texas becoming a complete team. Not to mention oakland shocking everyone. |
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All-Star
Posts: 3050
| Angel Oracle - 2012-11-28 2:32 PM
Not that it's in synch with the thread, but who should get the most blame for 3 straight post-seasonless seasons?
Arte?
Reagins?
Scioscia?
Coaches?
Underachieving players?
All of the above?
With this payroll, THREE straight post-seasonless seasons is simply unacceptable.
Hatcher of course! |
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Hall of Fame
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| Generation gap? That doesn't make any sense, besides Scioscia isn't that old. I think the average age for a mlb manager is mid 50's - right where Scioscia is. |
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Hall of Fame
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| Lifetime - 2012-11-28 8:03 PM
Generation gap? That doesn't make any sense, besides Scioscia isn't that old. I think the average age for a mlb manager is mid 50's - right where Scioscia is.
To speak more on this -
Average age of manager at end of 2012 season (not counting Acta's replacement): 54.32
Mike Scioscia's age at end of 2012 season: 53.86
Also, Jim Leyland - 67. Bruce Bochy - 57. Of the 10 teams that made the playoffs, 6 had managers older than Scioscia. Many of them were more than 10 years older. |
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| Jay L - 2012-11-28 12:16 PM That he lowered beer prices is an urban legend. $12.50 for a $2 beer is not lowering beer prices. That's a rip-off. So how does that affect his position on the list? Where the hell are you paying $12.50 for a beer? |
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| deepdrive - 2012-11-28 6:25 PM Angel Oracle - 2012-11-28 2:32 PM Not that it's in synch with the thread, but who should get the most blame for 3 straight post-seasonless seasons? Arte? Reagins? Scioscia? Coaches? Underachieving players? All of the above? With this payroll, THREE straight post-seasonless seasons is simply unacceptable. I doubt anyone here has the insider information necessary to adequately answer this. You must be new here. Welcome to AW. By the way, if you ever need help moving, PM Adam |
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Big League Angels
Posts: 1139
| IEBRUIN - 2012-11-28 9:06 PM
deepdrive - 2012-11-28 6:25 PM Angel Oracle - 2012-11-28 2:32 PM Not that it's in synch with the thread, but who should get the most blame for 3 straight post-seasonless seasons? Arte? Reagins? Scioscia? Coaches? Underachieving players? All of the above? With this payroll, THREE straight post-seasonless seasons is simply unacceptable. I doubt anyone here has the insider information necessary to adequately answer this. You must be new here. Welcome to AW. By the way, if you ever need help moving, PM Adam
Nope, just a slow learner. |
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Big League Angels
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| Lifetime - 2012-11-28 11:34 AM
What does that have to do with the owner's rating?
Oh, and just who is over rating him?
A. Nothing.
B. A fishwrap hack. |
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| I thought the Dodger Dog listing was appropriate -- all the hype over Dodger Dogs and they're actually terrible/ poor quality and expensive.
assume they still don't serve sauerkraut with the dogs -- for a team that came from Brooklyn, this is inexcusable....
for those in the Seattle who go to Safeco Field -- I think the vendors outside the park there with their brats WITH SAUERKRAUT if you want it -- serve up some of the best dogs in MLB.
Of course, I've not been to Miller Park in Milwaukee or Wrigley Field in Chicago -- am sure vendors there can match Seattle............but Seattle's dogs clearly beat any park in S. Cal. (AT&T in SF comes closest). |
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All-Star
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Location: Orange County | Lifetime - 2012-11-28 8:03 PM
Generation gap? That doesn't make any sense, besides Scioscia isn't that old. I think the average age for a mlb manager is mid 50's - right where Scioscia is. im putting it nicely. Sosh is hard on his younger players, and im sure that isnt the greatest work enviornment.
Francona and valentine are about the same age. One was a far better manager, regardless of their knowledge of the game. |
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| That doesn't fit what you said recon. And I don't buy that he's overly hard on the young players |
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Location: Redondo Beach, Calif. | kbrents21 - 2012-11-28 3:57 PM WTF? Arte is one of the top 3 owners in baseball its that simple. We are blessed to have him he cares about the fans and he spends money. The angels were one of the worst teams in all of sports I know we won a WS but it was always hard to get a player in his prime to come here now thats not the cause we have just as good as a chance as anyone one. Disney still owned us we don't get Albert thats for sure. We put up with so much for so long with this team before Arte. My two sense... Anybody who hired Tony Reagins to be in charge of any player personal decisions simply cannot be a top 3 owner in any sports league. This showed a horrific hiring process Arte uses to find lieutenants. I'm actually quite glad Arte is the Halos' owner. He is definitely better than most. He is not in the same class as Bill DeWitt and others of his ilk. |
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| LOL |
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Location: Redondo Beach, Calif. | Ten Ocho Recon Scout - 2012-11-28 10:06 PM Lifetime - 2012-11-28 8:03 PM Generation gap? That doesn't make any sense, besides Scioscia isn't that old. I think the average age for a mlb manager is mid 50's - right where Scioscia is. im putting it nicely. Sosh is hard on his younger players, and im sure that isnt the greatest work enviornment. Francona and valentine are about the same age. One was a far better manager, regardless of their knowledge of the game. I don't think Scioscia's inability to connect with younger players is due to a generation gap. I've spoken to players from the 80s (friends of mine have dated the daughter of a former players, etc.) over the years and, albeit an unscientific sample, amongst those I have talked to is a consensus that Scioscia is a total a-hole. If you aren't connecting with him he totally ostracizes you. |
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Big League Angels
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| kbrents21 - 2012-11-28 3:57 PM
WTF? Arte is one of the top 3 owners in baseball its that simple. We are blessed to have him he cares about the fans and he spends money. The angels were one of the worst teams in all of sports I know we won a WS but it was always hard to get a player in his prime to come here now thats not the cause we have just as good as a chance as anyone one. Disney still owned us we don't get Albert thats for sure. We put up with so much for so long with this team before Arte. My two sense...
Thanks for your two 'sense'. There's this thing called a comma, it looks like this: , it makes the head hurt way less when reading your 'sentences', the sentiment and opinions notwithstanding. |
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Hall of Fame
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| yk9000 - 2012-11-28 2:48 PM
Chuck - 2012-11-28 2:47 PM
BS that Arte is even talked about in this discussion? He's entrusted his GMs to get the right players, paying top dollar and yet he's overrated?
Laughable.
Who hired Reagins?
Maybe that was Arte's evil twin who did that.
Seriously though, I do like Arte, but hiring Reagins(and the messes that resulted from it, especially Wells) were a pretty big mistake by him.
Edited by jshep 2012-11-28 10:37 PM
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Location: Tuscon | IEBRUIN - 2012-11-28 9:03 PM
Jay L - 2012-11-28 12:16 PM That he lowered beer prices is an urban legend. $12.50 for a $2 beer is not lowering beer prices. That's a rip-off. So how does that affect his position on the list? Where the hell are you paying $12.50 for a beer?
Last time I was at the game they were selling craft beers for $9.50 a pint. I tihnk they have a larger size (24oz perhaps?) that sells for $12.50
Edited by AZMike 2012-11-28 11:01 PM
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Hall of Fame
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Location: Southern Cal | This is why you pregame at OC Sports Grill....
Official home of AW. |
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| AZMike - 2012-11-28 10:58 PM IEBRUIN - 2012-11-28 9:03 PM Jay L - 2012-11-28 12:16 PM That he lowered beer prices is an urban legend. $12.50 for a $2 beer is not lowering beer prices. That's a rip-off. So how does that affect his position on the list? Where the hell are you paying $12.50 for a beer? Last time I was at the game they were selling craft beers for $9.50 a pint. I tihnk they have a larger size (24oz perhaps? ) that sells for $12.50 drink a regular beer, it's a ballgame where do you buy a 22 oz craft beer for $2.00 ? |
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Hall of Famer
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Location: AngelsWin.com: Where Angels Fans Are @ | jshep - 2012-11-28 10:36 PM
yk9000 - 2012-11-28 2:48 PM
Chuck - 2012-11-28 2:47 PM
BS that Arte is even talked about in this discussion? He's entrusted his GMs to get the right players, paying top dollar and yet he's overrated?
Laughable.
Who hired Reagins?
Maybe that was Arte's evil twin who did that.
Seriously though, I do like Arte, but hiring Reagins (and the messes that resulted from it, especially Wells ) were a pretty big mistake by him.
Stoneman recommended Tony Reagins to Arte when he approached Arte about resigning. Arte was a big fan of Stoneman, so there wasn't much of an interview process there. |
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| Arte is a smart yet imperfect leader who allowed some poor baseball decisions to be made. He trusts the baseball people to know more than he does, unfortunately, some of the baseball people he trusted made poor baseball decisions.
Reagins was Stoneman's bad. Arte put too much stock into Stoneman's GM and baseball ops skills because of the WS win. Now Stoneman has less influence.
Reagins and Sosh convinced Arte that the Wells trade made sense despite having strong reservations. Arte attempted to make some corrections by bringing in JD and reigning in Sosh's former GM-like power. I think that was a good move. And then he opened his wallet wide open to bring in Pujols, etc.
Arte has poured money into this team since day one. He wants to win. Remember the signings along with Vladdy? He corrected the GMJ signing with Torii... how many teams would have done that?
I really don't see why the Arte hate.
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Location: Orange County | Lifetime - 2012-11-28 10:10 PM
That doesn't fit what you said recon. And I don't buy that he's overly hard on the young players just things ive heard. |
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Location: Orange County | YouthofToday - 2012-11-28 10:17 PM
Ten Ocho Recon Scout - 2012-11-28 10:06 PM Lifetime - 2012-11-28 8:03 PM Generation gap? That doesn't make any sense, besides Scioscia isn't that old. I think the average age for a mlb manager is mid 50's - right where Scioscia is. im putting it nicely. Sosh is hard on his younger players, and im sure that isnt the greatest work enviornment. Francona and valentine are about the same age. One was a far better manager, regardless of their knowledge of the game. I don't think Scioscia's inability to connect with younger players is due to a generation gap. I've spoken to players from the 80s (friends of mine have dated the daughter of a former players, etc.) over the years and, albeit an unscientific sample, amongst those I have talked to is a consensus that Scioscia is a total a-hole. If you aren't connecting with him he totally ostracizes you.  How true it all is im not sure, im not in the clubhouse, and with the 'telephone' effect on gossip im sure certain things get exagerrated some. But from what ive heard hes tough to play for if youre not one of 'his guys'.
Again, i dont have all the facts. But i think like the rest of us on here, having a boss you feel comfortable around is important on your work product. |
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Hall of Fame
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Location: OC | IEBRUIN - 2012-11-29 1:00 AM
AZMike - 2012-11-28 10:58 PM IEBRUIN - 2012-11-28 9:03 PM Jay L - 2012-11-28 12:16 PM That he lowered beer prices is an urban legend. $12.50 for a $2 beer is not lowering beer prices. That's a rip-off. So how does that affect his position on the list? Where the hell are you paying $12.50 for a beer? Last time I was at the game they were selling craft beers for $9.50 a pint. I tihnk they have a larger size (24oz perhaps? ) that sells for $12.50 drink a regular beer, it's a ballgame where do you buy a 22 oz craft beer for $2.00 ?
You'll pay $12.50 for a Stella at the ballpark. Actually that's probably worth less than $2.00. A regular beer is what, $9.00? And that beer is worth only $.50 so that's even worse. |
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Hall of Fame
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| Lifetime - 2012-11-28 10:10 PM That doesn't fit what you said recon. And I don't buy that he's overly hard on the young players Actually, he is not hard enough on his players in my opinion. The costly and incessant mental errors, baserunning blunders and such go on year after year while never getting corrected, and no disciplinary measures being imposed. In truth, I think Scoiscia needs to be more of a disciplinarian.
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| mtangelsfan - 2012-11-28 3:09 PM
People aren't coming because of wins and losses. Not because of the "Scioscia style" I remember the empty seats when the team was scoring 7 runs a game and still losing. Don't you?
Thank you for a sane statement. God it is frustrating reading the ignorant posts that often is thrown on this board! |
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Location: Upland | Jay L - 2012-11-29 5:39 AM
IEBRUIN - 2012-11-29 1:00 AM
AZMike - 2012-11-28 10:58 PM IEBRUIN - 2012-11-28 9:03 PM Jay L - 2012-11-28 12:16 PM That he lowered beer prices is an urban legend. $12.50 for a $2 beer is not lowering beer prices. That's a rip-off. So how does that affect his position on the list? Where the hell are you paying $12.50 for a beer? Last time I was at the game they were selling craft beers for $9.50 a pint. I tihnk they have a larger size (24oz perhaps? ) that sells for $12.50 drink a regular beer, it's a ballgame where do you buy a 22 oz craft beer for $2.00 ?
You'll pay $12.50 for a Stella at the ballpark. Actually that's probably worth less than $2.00. A regular beer is what, $9.00? And that beer is worth only $.50 so that's even worse.
I thought it was a preconceived notion that if you want beer at any stadium in the country that you are going to overpay dramatically and he did drop beer prices on certain beers and they still are lower than they used to be. While it is true that beer is a high profit industry, the only way you are paying 2 bucks for a Stella is if you drink at home. A pint of Stella is $5-6.00 at any bar out there without some special running.
Not sure how any Angels fan could be unhappy with Arte in an overall sense. While they have not reached the World Series, it is not a lack of effort. THe money has been spent to build the team, sometimes his baseball people didnt make the correct decisions but he has let those people go. THis club has been more relevant over his length of ownership than either of the past two owners. |
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| Ten Ocho Recon Scout - 2012-11-28 3:59 PM
mtangelsfan - 2012-11-28 11:26 AM
He also gave the ok to sign both Pujols and Wilson. He's opened his pocket book and done what he's could. Not sure what else he can do as an owner. I think he's only real mistake was hiring Reagins. exactly.
That article, and some of the whinIng from fans, is severely short sighted. Moreno has substantially increased the value of the team, has put a champion quality team on the field year after year, and has always kept us in the top tier payroll wise while still selling tickets and concessions in the bottom tier.
The marlins owners have two more rings than moreno....i guess they are better owners.
Had the teams won on the field (as they should have ), moreno would be no better or worse an owner. Yet somehow thats how bored sportswriters and short sighted fans will see it.
Another very rational and intelligent response. Damn that two in one thread, don't know if this board can handle it. |
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| EDinTUSTIN - 2012-11-29 7:15 AM
Lifetime - 2012-11-28 10:10 PM That doesn't fit what you said recon. And I don't buy that he's overly hard on the young players Actually, he is not hard enough on his players in my opinion. The costly and incessant mental errors, baserunning blunders and such go on year after year while never getting corrected, and no disciplinary measures being imposed. In truth, I think Scoiscia needs to be more of a disciplinarian.
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Location: Peru | stormngt - 2012-11-29 10:16 AM
Thank you for a sane statement. God it is frustrating reading the ignorant posts that often is thrown on this board!
Be sure to put yourself on ignore then. |
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| Moreno has substantially increased the value of the team
Why is this important to anybody besides Arte and his wife and kids? |
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EDinTUSTIN - 2012-11-29 7:15 AM
Actually, he is not hard enough on his players in my opinion. The costly and incessant mental errors, baserunning blunders and such go on year after year while never getting corrected, and no disciplinary measures being imposed. In truth, I think Scoiscia needs to be more of a disciplinarian.
Scioscia is either not disciplining stupid, or his discipline doesn't work. One or the other.
Because the Angels lead the league in Stupid year after year.
Edited by yk9000 2012-11-29 9:23 AM
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| No they dont |
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Location: OC | RunPettisRun - 2012-11-29 8:17 AM
he did drop beer prices on certain beers and they still are lower than they used to be.
just curious, which beers have a price that is lower than before Arte?
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| Jay L - 2012-11-29 10:02 AM
RunPettisRun - 2012-11-29 8:17 AM
he did drop beer prices on certain beers and they still are lower than they used to be.
just curious, which beers have a price that is lower than before Arte?
The bargain beer is $4.50 a cup, and Arte started that, I recall. I know it was over $5 before he arrived.
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Location: OC | There's a $4.50 beer at the stadium? |
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| Jay L - 2012-11-29 10:25 AM
There's a $4.50 beer at the stadium?
Yep, at most of the concession stands. I bought one this summer with the obligatory Angel Dog. It's a 10 ounce (?) cup of light beer.
edit: I did some more checking, and it's 14 ounces. Lowest price among all 30 MLB stadiums.
Edited by fan_since79 2012-11-29 10:38 AM
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Salt Lake Bees
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| I'm really getting tired of Arte hiring/Not Firing stupid people! Hatcher, Reagins, and Scisocia WTF???
Edited by angelduck 2012-11-29 10:36 AM
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| A couple years ago it was 12 ounces. The Aramark lady had to practically blow dust off it. She says nobody orders it. |
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Location: OC | fan_since79 - 2012-11-29 10:28 AM
Jay L - 2012-11-29 10:25 AM
There's a $4.50 beer at the stadium?
Yep, at most of the concession stands. I bought one this summer with the obligatory Angel Dog. It's a 10 ounce (? ) cup of light beer.
edit: I did some more checking, and it's 14 ounces. Lowest price among all 30 MLB stadiums.
Well I did find this:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42381528/What_MLB_Teams_Are_Charging_For_Tic...
The cheapest beers are sold by the Arizona Diamondbacks (28.6 cents an oz.), Pittsburgh Pirates (31.2 cents an oz.), Texas Rangers (31.2 cents an oz.), Philadelphia Phillies (32.1 cents an oz.) and Los Angeles Angels (32.1 cents an oz.)
So it's among the lowest (not the lowest) in MLB, at least according to this. So Arte's claim to fame is legit. (Note to self: see if you can actually find the $4.50 beer at the stadium).
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| Sure he changed the name, but any fans, including myself, that he may have "alienated", understand why he did it, and are over it by now. Doggie fans are more upset about it, because of their gang mentality of turf and such.
If that's the major reason he's on this list, that throws the credibility of the writer out the window. |
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Location: Orange County | yk9000 - 2012-11-29 9:16 AM
Moreno has substantially increased the value of the team
Why is this important to anybody besides Arte and his wife and kids? firstly i would assume the mark of any good business owner would be to increase worth....so its good for arte, his kids....his shareholders...and investors.
The last part being important, because thats what leads to our high payroll, stadium renovations, low parking costs etc. |
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Location: Orange County | Jay L - 2012-11-29 10:52 AM
fan_since79 - 2012-11-29 10:28 AM
Jay L - 2012-11-29 10:25 AM
There's a $4.50 beer at the stadium?
Yep, at most of the concession stands. I bought one this summer with the obligatory Angel Dog. It's a 10 ounce (? ) cup of light beer.
edit: I did some more checking, and it's 14 ounces. Lowest price among all 30 MLB stadiums.
Well I did find this:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42381528/What_MLB_Teams_Are_Charging_For_Tic...
The cheapest beers are sold by the Arizona Diamondbacks (28.6 cents an oz. ), Pittsburgh Pirates (31.2 cents an oz. ), Texas Rangers (31.2 cents an oz. ), Philadelphia Phillies (32.1 cents an oz. ) and Los Angeles Angels (32.1 cents an oz. )
So it's among the lowest (not the lowest ) in MLB, at least according to this. So Arte's claim to fame is legit. (Note to self: see if you can actually find the $4.50 beer at the stadium ).
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| yk9000 - 2012-11-29 9:16 AM Moreno has substantially increased the value of the team Why is this important to anybody besides Arte and his wife and kids? It's not to me. It's not my money.
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L.A. Times: Most overrated things in L.A. sports: Moreno at #3
