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| IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 2:43 PM Wait? BABIP doesn't count HRs ? You can't be serious Why do you think in the world of BABIP Quinlin and Vlad are equals? |
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| For hitters, it's just intended to show what a hitter's batting average is when he puts the ball in play. HRs aren't counted, which is why those big time HR hitters don't usually have a high BABIP. Barry Bonds' career BABIP is .288, yet he is one of the greatest hitters of all time. He had some of the best offensive seasons of all time. His BABIP isn't high because a good portion of his hits are HRs. |
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| HRs don't count. LOL !
I guess ground-rule doubles don't either, correct? |
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| Fan Strong - 6/15/2009 2:46 PM
For hitters, it's just intended to show what a hitter's batting average is when he puts the ball in play. HRs aren't counted, which is why those big time HR hitters don't usually have a high BABIP. Barry Bonds' career BABIP is .288, yet he is one of the greatest hitters of all time. He had some of the best offensive seasons of all time. His BABIP isn't high because a good portion of his hits are HRs.
And this is valuable to know why exactly? |
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| You're the one saying that according to BABIP, Pujols doesn't have the same offensive value as Q. In other words, you have no clue what BABIP is or how it's intended to be used or what it is even about. You're misusing it.
BABIP doesn't measure offensive value. So, saying that Pujols is less of a hitter than a certain player because Pujols' BABIP is lower is just ... |
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| Yeah, LT. Don't u know it's intended to measure luck ? |
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| IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 2:48 PM
HRs don't count. LOL !
I guess ground-rule doubles don't either, correct?
Well, I didn't invent the thing. The reason HRs aren't counted is because they're viewed as sure hits. |
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| Fan Strong - 6/15/2009 2:51 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 2:48 PM HRs don't count. LOL ! I guess ground-rule doubles don't either, correct? Well, I didn't invent the thing. The reason HRs aren't counted is because they're viewed as sure hits. Torii would argue that point |
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| That's viewed as a long out. ;) |
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| So a line drive down the line that bounces a foot from the wall doesn't count either? |
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| So, BABIP is valuable to know why again? |
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| IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 2:50 PM Yeah, LT. Don't u know it's intended to measure luck ? It so every player feels valuable. It was concocted by a little league Mom to rationalize why her little Jimmy can't pitch or hit is still a valued member of the team so hand over the MVP trophy you mean coach. it gives Rob Quinlan a reason to put on a uniform each night and not clog up the bench because he sits in equal footing to some of the greats in baseball, according to BABIP. And you numbnutz wonder why Scioscia keeps him around. |
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| wait a sec, aren't all hits sure hits or wouldn't they be called OUTS? |
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| Lifetime - 6/15/2009 2:56 PM wait a sec, aren't all hits sure hits or wouldn't they be called OUTS? But those are unlucky Outs |
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| IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 2:57 PM
Lifetime - 6/15/2009 2:56 PM wait a sec, aren't all hits sure hits or wouldn't they be called OUTS? But those are unlucky Outs
Oh, well that is valuable then |
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| IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 2:57 PM Lifetime - 6/15/2009 2:56 PM wait a sec, aren't all hits sure hits or wouldn't they be called OUTS? But those are unlucky Outs |
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Location: Along the mother road. | I used to think that anyone could be a comedian. This thread has made me think otherwise. |
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| Did Adam post something? |
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| And anyone can be a closer.
Can closers be comedians? |
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| Lifetime - 6/15/2009 2:55 PM
So, BABIP is valuable to know why again?
Why not? Why is batting average valuable to know? Or OBP? Or SLG?
Besides, you can use this metric to spot who is getting lucky and who isn't. It's a good thing to use when you're about to give out a huge contract to a pitcher or hitter. If a hitter with a .300 career BABIP suddenly has a .400 BABIP in his contract year (or any year for that matter), you see that the hitter got lucky and isn't going to repeat it again.
If the Angels did that with GMJ, and weren't relying on hope (as Stoneman believed some players "figure" it out later, and compared GMJ to some player who finally starting hitting in his mid-30s), they'd realize that GMJ's numbers were inflated because of a BABIP that didn't match anything he did before. The Angels would be $50 million dollars richer and wouldn't have a disaster on their hands.
Same can be said for pitchers. If a pitcher suddenly has a .250 BABIP in their contract year (or any year), you can see that the pitcher got lucky and isn't going to repeat it again.
It can be useful if used properly. |
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| Blarg - 6/15/2009 2:59 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 2:57 PM Lifetime - 6/15/2009 2:56 PM wait a sec, aren't all hits sure hits or wouldn't they be called OUTS? But those are unlucky Outs I thought those were productive outs?
Well, according to BABIP, they must be productive outs. Because strikeouts are subtracted from the AB's. |
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| Chilidaviseyez - 6/15/2009 3:00 PM
I used to think that anyone could be a comedian. This thread has made me think otherwise.
That's the first step to recovery Chili. |
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| This is truly the stat of worried mothers. Remove anythin that makes your son look bad then present it as truth. |
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Location: Along the mother road. | Lifetime - 6/15/2009 3:02 PM That's the first step to recovery Chili. You guys are the equivalent of curing a heroin addiction by ingesting 20 lbs of weapons grade plutonium.
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| GMJ's BABIP in his contract year: .349
GMJ's career BABIP: .300
GMJ's BABIP the following 3 years with the Angels? .283....294...305
If the Angels looked at BABIP, they'd know he didn't turn a corner at all. He was the same GMJ. |
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| At least we know Quinlan will get a "participant" trophy at the end of the season.
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| Fan Strong - 6/15/2009 3:04 PM GMJ's BABIP in his contract year: .349 GMJ's career BABIP: .300 GMJ's BABIP the following 3 years with the Angels? .283....294...305 If the Angels looked at BABIP, they'd know he didn't turn a corner at all. He was the same GMJ. What about Pujols? |
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| Fan Strong - 6/15/2009 3:01 PM
Lifetime - 6/15/2009 2:55 PM
So, BABIP is valuable to know why again?
Why not? Why is batting average valuable to know? Or OBP? Or SLG?
Besides, you can use this metric to spot who is getting lucky and who isn't. It's a good thing to use when you're about to give out a huge contract to a pitcher or hitter. If a hitter with a .300 career BABIP suddenly has a .400 BABIP in his contract year (or any year for that matter ), you see that the hitter got lucky and isn't going to repeat it again.
If the Angels did that with GMJ, and weren't relying on hope (as Stoneman believed some players "figure" it out later, and compared GMJ to some player who finally starting hitting in his mid-30s ), they'd realize that GMJ's numbers were inflated because of a BABIP that didn't match anything he did before. The Angels would be $50 million dollars richer and wouldn't have a disaster on their hands.
Same can be said for pitchers. If a pitcher suddenly has a .250 BABIP in their contract year (or any year ), you can see that the pitcher got lucky and isn't going to repeat it again.
It can be useful if used properly.
yes because observation and looking at available standard stats just doesn't give you that insight. I don't think many here though GMJ would reproduce the year he had before being signed as an Angel. We didn't need BABIP to tell us that. Well, most of us didn't anyway. |
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| Fan Strong - 6/15/2009 3:04 PM
GMJ's BABIP in his contract year: .349
GMJ's career BABIP: .300
GMJ's BABIP the following 3 years with the Angels? .283....294...305
If the Angels looked at BABIP, they'd know he didn't turn a corner at all. He was the same GMJ.
Or the Angels could have just looked at his Avg, OBP, SLG, and OPS and seen the same thing everyone else saw. |
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Location: My Own Private Idaho | Lifetime - 6/15/2009 3:02 PM Chilidaviseyez - 6/15/2009 3:00 PM I used to think that anyone could be a comedian. This thread has made me think otherwise. That's the first step to recovery Chili. This thread has moved to platinum status.... |
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| Chilidaviseyez - 6/15/2009 3:04 PM
Lifetime - 6/15/2009 3:02 PM That's the first step to recovery Chili. You guys are the equivalent of curing a heroin addiction by ingesting 20 lbs of weapons grade plutonium.
Don't argue with success Chili. It's a bitter pill but it works. |
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Location: Along the mother road. | Don't argue with success Chili. It's a bitter pill but it works. I appreciate a good trolling but subtlety is the key. You guys are as subtle as Adam in a thong.
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| I'm just bored today |
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| Yet, if you look at some of the quotes from Stoneman and Scioscia, you'd think they actually believed GMJ turned a corner! Talk about being wrong. All they had to do was look at his BABIP and compare it with his usual BABIP. They'd know he was going to revert back to the journeyman that he is. $50 million....down the drain! |
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| What about Pujols? |
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BABIP....?????
