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| AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 1:36 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first. This is the biggest problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion about sports. The meat head with the 1.80 GPA always thinks he knows what he's talking about. Right, reading this thread which group is acting like they know more? Pot meet kettle. |
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| mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM
ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.
if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it" |
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| All I know is, after seeing the abundant mental miscues so far in 2009....
I miss grit! |
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| ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:39 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first. if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it" lol, you insult another poster and then call me sarcastic. BTW, I wasn't the one claiming to be smarter than anyone else. |
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Location: Along the mother road. | mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first. Do they even have computers in Montana? I thought electricity was a prerequisite.
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Location: Anaheim, CA | mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:40 PM
ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:39 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first. if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it" lol, you insult another poster and then call me sarcastic. BTW, I wasn't the one claiming to be smarter than anyone else.
MT, you forgot the use the disclaimer!! |
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| ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:39 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM
ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.
if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it"
Yeah MT and people who are a lot smarter than you work hard on this BABIP and it's revealing amazing stuff. |
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| Hot Damn - 6/15/2009 1:41 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:40 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:39 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first. if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it" lol, you insult another poster and then call me sarcastic. BTW, I wasn't the one claiming to be smarter than anyone else. MT, you forgot the use the disclaimer!! LOL |
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| Lifetime - 6/15/2009 1:42 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:39 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first. if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it" Yeah MT and people who are a lot smarter than you work hard on this BABIP and it's revealing amazing stuff. I know, I am especially glad I have learned that Albert Pujouls is actually worse than almost every Angel hitter. |
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| mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:37 PM
AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 1:36 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first. This is the biggest problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion about sports. The meat head with the 1.80 GPA always thinks he knows what he's talking about. Right, reading this thread which group is acting like they know more? Pot meet kettle.
Sorry, your post is still one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here. It would make Monkey's hall of fame. |
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| ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.
Edited by Blarg 2009-06-15 12:46 PM
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Location: My Own Private Idaho | This thread is pure gold... pops popcorn |
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Location: Along the mother road. | mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:43 PM I know, I am especially glad I have learned that Albert Pujouls is actually worse than almost every Angel hitter. Anyone else have this immediately pop in thier heads? D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the &^@% happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bast*rds. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: *Let’s do it*!
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| Blarg - 6/15/2009 12:45 PM
ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. BABIP in it's current formula for hitting is pretty much useless without using multiple modifiers to filter out the weakness of the theorey. It is too crude in itself to have any meaning in discussions of players tendencies or abilities.
Well obviously you're not one of the smarter people Faulkner was talking about |
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| GlausGirl - 6/15/2009 12:45 PM This thread is pure gold... pops popcorn |
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| Lifetime - 6/15/2009 12:46 PM Well obviously you're not one of the smarter people Faulkner was talking about I would argue that but I doubt I have a leg to stand on. |
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Location: My Own Private Idaho | Blarg - 6/15/2009 12:46 PM GlausGirl - 6/15/2009 12:45 PM This thread is pure gold... pops popcorn 12 or 14 Karat? Blarg I'm going to say white gold on this one. Someone needs to throw out a players BABIP so I can go find the graph to post. |
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| Tomorrow's Stat thread will be on RC/27. |
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| And figuring the cosine of that. |
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Orem Owlz
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| Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM
With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say.
Please pass the Advil...I have a headache.
This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic.
A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of.
Thanks AO. |
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| AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 1:44 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:37 PM AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 1:36 PM mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right? smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of. Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first. This is the biggest problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion about sports. The meat head with the 1.80 GPA always thinks he knows what he's talking about. Right, reading this thread which group is acting like they know more? Pot meet kettle. , your post is still one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here. It would make Monkey's hall of fame. Don't lie.
Edited by mtangelsfan 2009-06-15 12:53 PM
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Location: My Own Private Idaho | ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:51 PM Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say. Please pass the Advil...I have a headache. This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic. A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of. Thanks AO. 
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| ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:51 PM
Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM
With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say.
Please pass the Advil...I have a headache.
This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic.
A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of.
Thanks AO.
ROFLMAO! You forgot "and don't forget to tip your waitress" |
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| josquin - 6/15/2009 12:49 PM
Tomorrow's Stat thread will be on RC/27.
I'm looking forward to the VORP discussion. |
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| ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:51 PM Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say. Please pass the Advil...I have a headache. This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic. A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of. Thanks AO. Wow, life advice. Can't thank you enough. I have really seen the error of my ways. Next time I will be certain to listen to the most pompous, arrogant, know-it-all in the room. |
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| Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:50 PM
And figuring the cosine of that.
LOL |
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| R. Munkee - 6/15/2009 12:33 PM How about hitters with an unusually high percentage of doinks and/or squibs? I've heard that at least one player owes more than 25% of his BA to such slop. |
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Location: My Own Private Idaho | mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:54 PM ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:51 PM Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say. Please pass the Advil...I have a headache. This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic. A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of. Thanks AO. Wow, life advice. Can't thank you enough. I have really seen the error of my ways. Next time I will be certain to listen to the most pompous, arrogant, know-it-all in the room. grabs the diet cherry coke to go with her popcorn.... |
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| mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:54 PM
ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:51 PM Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say. Please pass the Advil...I have a headache. This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic. A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of. Thanks AO. Wow, life advice. Can't thank you enough. I have really seen the error of my ways. Next time I will be certain to listen to the most pompous, arrogant, know-it-all in the room.
It's always good to check the PAKIA rating on fangraphs before you attempt to debate. So that you understand the rating, it's kind of like rating doucheyness but but different |
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| I just see that 5 things are critical for success, especially here.
1) clutch hitting
2) having enough XBHs so that it doesn't take a lot of singles to score runs
3) fielding at least decently to solidly
4) running the bases well
5) but not least of course, get solid pitching from the rotation AND the pen.
Some of the acronym categories might have some relevance, others might not, because those numbers can be arbitrary sometimes. And GMs are more and more looking to them.
But heaven help us if baseball becomes nothing but a numbers game. |
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| I'm pretty sure the only things that matter are 1) Grit 2) Clutch Hitting 3) Not striking out. You can add them all together and they = RBI's. |
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| BABIP and other stats aren't meant to be an answer for everything. They are just one tool you can use to assess a player's performance. Other tools include watching the player yourself, looking at the situations he's in, looking at his history, his strengths and weaknesses. Stats can tell you something that watching a game, cannot, because they aggregate information. On the other hand stats can also be abused and interpreted wrongly, something that watching games can correct. You need both to make a full evaluation of a player or a situation. Being completely ignorant of stats or anti-intellectual means you are simply handicapping yourself of using information that can benefit your assessments. You are doing it to your own detriment |
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BABIP in it's current formula for hitting is pretty much useless without using multiple modifiers to filter out the weakness of the theorey. It is too crude in itself to have any meaning in discussions of players tendencies or abilities.
Sure there are some modifiers to take into account,but the mere necessity of modifiers doesn't make the stat meaningless. Here is an old blog post on this topic (modifiers) by someone more informed than I am. It brings more to this element of the discussion than anything I'd be able to type up real quick:
http://danagonistes.blogspot.com/2005/03/dips-for-hitters.html
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Location: My Own Private Idaho | Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:58 PM But heaven help us if baseball becomes nothing but a numbers game. THIS |
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| ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:06 PM
BABIP in it's current formula for hitting is pretty much useless without using multiple modifiers to filter out the weakness of the theorey. It is too crude in itself to have any meaning in discussions of players tendencies or abilities.
Sure there are some modifiers to take into account,but the mere necessity of modifiers doesn't make the stat meaningless. Here is an old blog post on this topic (modifiers ) by someone more informed than I am. It brings more to this element of the discussion than anything I'd be able to type up real quick:
http://danagonistes.blogspot.com/2005/03/dips-for-hitters.html
You want me to read? Come on dude! I got practice!
(You think you could do my homework for me?) |
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BABIP....?????
