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BABIP....?????
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gotbeer
Posted 2009-06-14 10:52 PM (#497737)
Subject: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 20685

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_average_on_balls_in_play

I got curious. Wow, umm, no wonder I never heard of it. First time I've every seen where you can strike out and it would actually help your stats.
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gotbeer
Posted 2009-06-14 10:55 PM (#497738 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



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Posts: 20685

Then again, it's the perfect Angels stat. Since home runs don't count.
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josquin
Posted 2009-06-14 10:59 PM (#497741 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: RE: BABIP....?????


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Posts: 5368

gotbeer - 6/14/2009 10:52 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_average_on_balls_in_play

I got curious. Wow, umm, no wonder I never heard of it. First time I've every seen where you can strike out and it would actually help your stats.


Just think if a hitter strikes out every at bat he has the dreaded BABIP of 0/0
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gotbeer
Posted 2009-06-14 11:02 PM (#497745 - in reply to #497741)
Subject: RE: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 20685

josquin - 6/14/2009 10:59 PM

gotbeer - 6/14/2009 10:52 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_average_on_balls_in_play

I got curious. Wow, umm, no wonder I never heard of it. First time I've every seen where you can strike out and it would actually help your stats.


Just think if a hitter strikes out every at bat he has the dreaded BABIP of 0/0


Well dammit. Mathis is an average MLB BABIP. No wonder he's starting over Napoli.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=3448&position=C&page=...
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RallyMo
Posted 2009-06-14 11:39 PM (#497771 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




Location: Angel Stadium's Rotting Bowels
I think BABIP may be my daughter's first word.

Well, one can hope, right?
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ineedanap
Posted 2009-06-15 12:04 AM (#497782 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: RE: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 8133

gotbeer - 6/14/2009 10:52 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_average_on_balls_in_play

I got curious. Wow, umm, no wonder I never heard of it. First time I've every seen where you can strike out and it would actually help your stats.


Its not really a stat that tells you if a player is "good" or "bad". The purpose of BABIP is to measure luck, essentially.

How many times have you seen a guy square up a ball and hit a line drive right into a fielder's glove? How many times have you seen a little dribbler barely squeeze through the infield? Sometimes you get lucky or unlucky in baseball. If either happens over an extended period of time its reflected in your BABIP.
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AngelsLakersFan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:06 AM (#497784 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



All-Star

Posts: 4978

BABIP is in no way 'luck' for a hitter.
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ineedanap
Posted 2009-06-15 12:08 AM (#497785 - in reply to #497784)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



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Posts: 8133

AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 12:06 AM

BABIP is in no way 'luck' for a hitter.


Maybe you can give a better explaination.
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AngelsLakersFan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:16 AM (#497794 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



All-Star

Posts: 4978

BABIP was designed to measure luck in pitchers because the number appears random for them. It's really just highly volatile, so its hard to measure true skill level in it. For hitters though there is a clear talent level that can be extracted from it. Hitters with high BABIP tend to be mashers with big power and lots of K's like Jim Thome (I think him and Ruth are close for #1 all time). I guess you could try to measure luck with it by seeing if a player is way off of his career pace, but it could also be that the hitter is just sucking.
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gotbeer
Posted 2009-06-15 7:47 AM (#497830 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 20685

Angels players BABIP:
Figgins .382
Abreu .349
Hunter .331
Vlad .308
Napoli .308
Morales .293
Rivera .308
Aybar .317
Izturis .318
Kendrick .269
Wood .302 in AAA

Pitchers:
Weaver .245
Saunders .272
Santana .378
Lackey .351
Palmer .258
Fuentes .361

So what BABIP is saying is, all our hitters are way about league average. Good news is, all our hitters are better than Albert Pujols who has a .283 BABIP. What a crappy hitter.
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HalozIn09
Posted 2009-06-15 10:01 AM (#497974 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


Thome's BABIP isn't even close to being highest of all time. It's just .326 for his career. Abreu's career BABIP is .352. Figgins' is 345. Kendrick's was .360 before this year's suckfest. Ichiro's is .357 (thanks to those infield hits). Jeter's is .360. Etc etc.

Hitters with high BABIP either tend to be those speedsters who get a ton of infield hits or those guys who simply rake and hit the ball hard, but may not hit a lot of HRs. Remember, HRs don't count towards BABIP.
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IEBRUIN
Posted 2009-06-15 10:02 AM (#497978 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




Wow. A stat that measures luck.


Has to be accurate, right?
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GlausGirl
Posted 2009-06-15 10:06 AM (#497987 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 7737

Location: My Own Private Idaho
I just like saying BABIP and finding the graph for the said player.
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Blarg
Posted 2009-06-15 12:07 PM (#498188 - in reply to #497978)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 32057

IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
Vlad has a career .319 BABIP while Quinlin has a .316. So you can see how obvious the difference between these two players are in terms of offensive production through all of the regular stats like Avg, Obp, Slg and Ops while BABIP proves Quinlan is the luckiest SOB in baseball.. 

Edited by Blarg 2009-06-15 12:09 PM
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AngelsLakersFan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:09 PM (#498190 - in reply to #497974)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



All-Star

Posts: 4978

Fan Strong - 6/15/2009 10:01 AM

Thome's BABIP isn't even close to being highest of all time. It's just .326 for his career. Abreu's career BABIP is .352. Figgins' is 345. Kendrick's was .360 before this year's suckfest. Ichiro's is .357 (thanks to those infield hits). Jeter's is .360. Etc etc.

Hitters with high BABIP either tend to be those speedsters who get a ton of infield hits or those guys who simply rake and hit the ball hard, but may not hit a lot of HRs. Remember, HRs don't count towards BABIP.


I was probably thinking of contact average. Basically the same, but it counts homeruns. BABIP is kind of useless for hitter because it doesn't measure luck and ignores homeruns.
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Lifetime
Posted 2009-06-15 12:21 PM (#498207 - in reply to #498190)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 29300

AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 12:09 PM

Fan Strong - 6/15/2009 10:01 AM

Thome's BABIP isn't even close to being highest of all time. It's just .326 for his career. Abreu's career BABIP is .352. Figgins' is 345. Kendrick's was .360 before this year's suckfest. Ichiro's is .357 (thanks to those infield hits). Jeter's is .360. Etc etc.

Hitters with high BABIP either tend to be those speedsters who get a ton of infield hits or those guys who simply rake and hit the ball hard, but may not hit a lot of HRs. Remember, HRs don't count towards BABIP.


I was probably thinking of contact average. Basically the same, but it counts homeruns. BABIP is kind of useless


FIXED
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ModernFaulkner
Posted 2009-06-15 12:30 PM (#498222 - in reply to #497978)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


Orem Owlz

Posts: 121

IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM

Wow. A stat that measures luck.


Has to be accurate, right?


smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

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AngelsLakersFan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:31 PM (#498225 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



All-Star

Posts: 4978

That works too, although I wont say it is completely useless for a pitcher, you just have to know what you are looking at.
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mtangelsfan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:32 PM (#498227 - in reply to #498222)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

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HalozIn09
Posted 2009-06-15 12:33 PM (#498229 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


How can it be useless? BABIP is batting average on balls in play. It just shows what his batting average is on balls in play (not counting HRs, which are sure hits)...nothing more. That's all it was intended to show for hitters. If you want a real measure of how well a hitter hits, look at wOBA.

As for luck...hitter BABIP isn't luck. Sure, anyone can have a fluke year. Look at Magglio Ordonez's .385 BABIP in 2007. He then had a .338 BABIP in 2008 and .320 so far in 2009. His career BABIP is .320. That 2007 is luck. His career BABIP is not. And you can't measure "luck" because every hitter is different. Some will naturally have higher BABIP than others. That's why you look at career BABIP. When a hitter has a .400 BABIP in one year, yet his career BABIP is .350 or so, that's luck. When his career BABIP is .350, yet his BABIP in one year is .250, that's bad luck. Assuming there are no injuries or any of that stuff. That's how you can look at luck and bad luck.
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R. Munkee
Posted 2009-06-15 12:33 PM (#498230 - in reply to #497974)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


Fan Strong - 6/15/2009 10:01 AM Thome's BABIP isn't even close to being highest of all time. It's just .326 for his career. Abreu's career BABIP is .352. Figgins' is 345. Kendrick's was .360 before this year's suckfest. Ichiro's is .357 (thanks to those infield hits). Jeter's is .360. Etc etc. Hitters with high BABIP either tend to be those speedsters who get a ton of infield hits or those guys who simply rake and hit the ball hard, but may not hit a lot of HRs. Remember, HRs don't count towards BABIP.

How about hitters with an unusually high percentage of doinks and/or squibs?  

I've heard that at least one player owes more than 25% of his BA to such slop.

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Lifetime
Posted 2009-06-15 12:34 PM (#498232 - in reply to #498225)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 29300

AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 12:31 PM

That works too, although I wont say it is completely useless for a pitcher, you just have to know what you are looking at.


Yeah, well I think I understand it pretty well and I find little to no use for it pitchers or hitters. I don't think it reveals anything
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Angel Oracle
Posted 2009-06-15 12:35 PM (#498234 - in reply to #498232)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 50047

With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say.

Please pass the Advil...I have a headache.
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AngelsLakersFan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:36 PM (#498235 - in reply to #498227)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



All-Star

Posts: 4978

mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.



This is the biggest problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion about sports. The meat head with the 1.80 GPA always thinks he knows what he's talking about.
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GlausGirl
Posted 2009-06-15 12:36 PM (#498237 - in reply to #498234)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 7737

Location: My Own Private Idaho

Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say. Please pass the Advil...I have a headache.

I use Advil for cramps. 

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mtangelsfan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:37 PM (#498238 - in reply to #498235)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 1:36 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

This is the biggest problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion about sports. The meat head with the 1.80 GPA always thinks he knows what he's talking about.

Right, reading this thread which group is acting like they know more?

Pot meet kettle.

 

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ModernFaulkner
Posted 2009-06-15 12:39 PM (#498244 - in reply to #498227)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


Orem Owlz

Posts: 121

mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.



if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it"
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Angel Oracle
Posted 2009-06-15 12:40 PM (#498246 - in reply to #498238)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 50047

All I know is, after seeing the abundant mental miscues so far in 2009....

I miss grit!
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mtangelsfan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:40 PM (#498247 - in reply to #498244)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:39 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it"

lol, you insult another poster and then call me sarcastic.  BTW, I wasn't the one claiming to be smarter than anyone else.

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Chilidaviseyez
Posted 2009-06-15 12:41 PM (#498248 - in reply to #498227)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


Hall of Fame

Posts: 11045

Location: Along the mother road.
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

Do they even have computers in Montana?  I thought electricity was a prerequisite.

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Hot Damn
Posted 2009-06-15 12:41 PM (#498249 - in reply to #498247)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 15139

mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:40 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:39 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it"

lol, you insult another poster and then call me sarcastic.  BTW, I wasn't the one claiming to be smarter than anyone else.



MT, you forgot the use the disclaimer!!
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Lifetime
Posted 2009-06-15 12:42 PM (#498250 - in reply to #498244)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 29300

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:39 PM

mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.



if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it"


Yeah MT and people who are a lot smarter than you work hard on this BABIP and it's revealing amazing stuff.
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mtangelsfan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:42 PM (#498251 - in reply to #498249)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




Hot Damn - 6/15/2009 1:41 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:40 PM
ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:39 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it"

lol, you insult another poster and then call me sarcastic.  BTW, I wasn't the one claiming to be smarter than anyone else.

MT, you forgot the use the disclaimer!!

LOL

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mtangelsfan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:43 PM (#498256 - in reply to #498250)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




Lifetime - 6/15/2009 1:42 PM
ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:39 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

if that's your viewpoint, fine, but instead of making sarcastic, pretentious posts about this or similar concepts, why not just be honest and post this disclaimer first: "Because of how cool I am, I haven't researched this topic at all. Therefore I have no basis for an opinion. But I have one anyway, because in addition to being super cool, I'm also smarter than everyone that has done or is doing research on it"
Yeah MT and people who are a lot smarter than you work hard on this BABIP and it's revealing amazing stuff.

I know, I am especially glad I have learned that Albert Pujouls is actually worse than almost every Angel hitter. 

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AngelsLakersFan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:44 PM (#498257 - in reply to #498238)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



All-Star

Posts: 4978

mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:37 PM

AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 1:36 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

This is the biggest problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion about sports. The meat head with the 1.80 GPA always thinks he knows what he's talking about.

Right, reading this thread which group is acting like they know more?

Pot meet kettle.

 



Sorry, your post is still one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here. It would make Monkey's hall of fame.
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Blarg
Posted 2009-06-15 12:45 PM (#498259 - in reply to #498222)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 32057

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.
BABIP in it's current formula for hitting is pretty much useless without using multiple modifiers to filter out the weakness of the theorey. It is too crude in itself to have any meaning in discussions of players tendencies or abilities.

Edited by Blarg 2009-06-15 12:46 PM
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GlausGirl
Posted 2009-06-15 12:45 PM (#498260 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: RE: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 7737

Location: My Own Private Idaho

This thread is pure gold...

pops popcorn

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Chilidaviseyez
Posted 2009-06-15 12:46 PM (#498261 - in reply to #498256)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


Hall of Fame

Posts: 11045

Location: Along the mother road.
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:43 PM

I know, I am especially glad I have learned that Albert Pujouls is actually worse than almost every Angel hitter. 

 Anyone else have this immediately pop in thier heads?

D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the &^@% happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bast*rds. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: *Let’s do it*! 

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Lifetime
Posted 2009-06-15 12:46 PM (#498264 - in reply to #498259)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 29300

Blarg - 6/15/2009 12:45 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.
BABIP in it's current formula for hitting is pretty much useless without using multiple modifiers to filter out the weakness of the theorey. It is too crude in itself to have any meaning in discussions of players tendencies or abilities.


Well obviously you're not one of the smarter people Faulkner was talking about
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Blarg
Posted 2009-06-15 12:46 PM (#498265 - in reply to #498260)
Subject: RE: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 32057

GlausGirl - 6/15/2009 12:45 PM

This thread is pure gold...

pops popcorn

12 or 14 Karat?
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Blarg
Posted 2009-06-15 12:48 PM (#498267 - in reply to #498264)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 32057

Lifetime - 6/15/2009 12:46 PM  Well obviously you're not one of the smarter people Faulkner was talking about
 I would argue that but I doubt I have a leg to stand on.
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GlausGirl
Posted 2009-06-15 12:48 PM (#498268 - in reply to #498265)
Subject: RE: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 7737

Location: My Own Private Idaho
Blarg - 6/15/2009 12:46 PM
GlausGirl - 6/15/2009 12:45 PM

This thread is pure gold...

pops popcorn

12 or 14 Karat?

Blarg I'm going to say white gold on this one. 

Someone needs to throw out a players BABIP so I can go find the graph to post.

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josquin
Posted 2009-06-15 12:49 PM (#498270 - in reply to #497737)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


Hall of Fame

Posts: 5368

Tomorrow's Stat thread will be on RC/27.
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Angel Oracle
Posted 2009-06-15 12:50 PM (#498273 - in reply to #498270)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 50047

And figuring the cosine of that.
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ModernFaulkner
Posted 2009-06-15 12:51 PM (#498274 - in reply to #498234)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????


Orem Owlz

Posts: 121

Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM

With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say.

Please pass the Advil...I have a headache.


This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic.

A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of.

Thanks AO.
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mtangelsfan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:51 PM (#498275 - in reply to #498257)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 1:44 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:37 PM
AngelsLakersFan - 6/15/2009 1:36 PM
mtangelsfan - 6/15/2009 12:32 PM

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:30 PM
IEBRUIN - 6/15/2009 10:02 AM Wow. A stat that measures luck. Has to be accurate, right?
smarter people than you have spent hundreds of hours analyzing batted ball data to find useful data, and BABIP is a hugely important and useful finding. There are some misconceptions about what it is and refinements to the initial conclusion derived by Voros McCracken are being made all the time. There really is some amazing stuff going on in statistical analysis. Point being, if you want to weigh in with an opinion on something, maybe you should spend a little time learning about it, instead of making carte blanche denigrations of a concept you're clearly completely ignorant of.

Yep, because when I think of talking sports with someone, its computer geeks I always think of first.

This is the biggest problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion about sports. The meat head with the 1.80 GPA always thinks he knows what he's talking about.

Right, reading this thread which group is acting like they know more?

Pot meet kettle.

 

Sorry, your post is still one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here. It would make Monkey's hall of fame.

Don't lie.



Edited by mtangelsfan 2009-06-15 12:53 PM
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GlausGirl
Posted 2009-06-15 12:52 PM (#498276 - in reply to #498274)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 7737

Location: My Own Private Idaho

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:51 PM
Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say. Please pass the Advil...I have a headache.
This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic. A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of. Thanks AO.

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Lifetime
Posted 2009-06-15 12:53 PM (#498278 - in reply to #498274)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



Hall of Fame

Posts: 29300

ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 12:51 PM

Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM

With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say.

Please pass the Advil...I have a headache.


This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic.

A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of.

Thanks AO.


ROFLMAO! You forgot "and don't forget to tip your waitress"
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AngelsLakersFan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:54 PM (#498279 - in reply to #498270)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????



All-Star

Posts: 4978

josquin - 6/15/2009 12:49 PM

Tomorrow's Stat thread will be on RC/27.


I'm looking forward to the VORP discussion.
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mtangelsfan
Posted 2009-06-15 12:54 PM (#498281 - in reply to #498274)
Subject: Re: BABIP....?????




ModernFaulkner - 6/15/2009 1:51 PM
Angel Oracle - 6/15/2009 12:35 PM With seeing all of these acronyms, I have just one thing to say. Please pass the Advil...I have a headache.
This is more like it. To everyone ignorantly stating BABIP is worthless, please notice that AO is not a fan of BABIP or presumably, other advanced statistical concepts, just like you! But instead of being pretentious by arbitrarily declaring the concept worthless, he instead implicitly states he doesn't care to pursue that level of knowledge and therefore doesn't have an opinion on the topic. A little life advice for certain posters - no one knows everything about everything. Consequently, although it may feel counterintuitive, you will come across as a smarter person in general if you just admit ignorance of things you are ignorant of. Thanks AO.

Wow, life advice.

Can't thank you enough.  I have really seen the error of my ways.  Next time I will be certain to listen to the most pompous, arrogant, know-it-all in the room.

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